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Nethrag

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ok lets look at this from an new angle then

no, really lets not.

I say ban magic all together!

I agree!

Agilgar - the rule pack will be being revised slightly this weekend.

In answer to your question, rules will be:
1500, 2 heroes.
1800, 450 points of heroes
2200, 550 on heroes and 1 lord of up to 550
2600, 650 on heroes and 1 lord of up to 650
2999, 749 on heroes and 2 lords (total of 749)

Those are the points distribution blocks for each points level - however its very important to remember that everything in a previous army must be taken in the next army and may have nothing extra added to it.

Hugh

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Is there any chance you'll consider revising the Line of Sight rules?

For a reasonably relaxed event surely it's simplest to play LoS the way most people play in friendly games? I've been to three 'competitive' 8th Ed events and never had any issues with true LoS. I'm happy to play systematic but I think it will cause more confusion than it will resolve disputes.

Hugh

Lovechunks

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gotta agree with Hugh there the LoS rules in 8th really are simple and straight foward.

Who has honestly had any disputes with true LoS?, if i can see you i can target you, as a certain meerkat may say, simples.

Added 02.18.2011 20:58:44:

jimbo wrote:
my other point being you can buy 3 gobbos or two men of the empire for 1 evle i know what i would rather have, and its not the elve

as a dark elf at heart can i just say that Jimbo can sit in caledor and claim that he would rather have two men than an elf but im gonna sit in Naggarythe and say i wouldnt forsake one of my spearmen for Karl franz himself. Bloody high elves.

Nethrag

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Is there any chance you'll consider revising the Line of Sight rules?

Don't think so but your welcome to give it a shot and as I've already told sean, I HAVE honestly had a good few issues with true line of sight, in friendly games which I've just let them get their way but I wouldn't want to do it in a tournament.

Also a massive point against true line of sight for me is how much it penalises well based, large conversions. If you've got a model based on a rock or anything your at a disadvantage to someone whose modeled theirs sat down arms and legs tucked into their sides.

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Last edited by Nethrag (2011-02-18 22:26:18)

Hugh

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Nethrag wrote:
Is there any chance you'll consider revising the Line of Sight rules?
Don't think so but your welcome to give it a shot and as I've already told sean, I HAVE honestly had a good few issues with true line of sight, in friendly games which I've just let them get their way but I wouldn't want to do it in a tournament.

Also a massive point against true line of sight for me is how much it penalises well based, large conversions. If you've got a model based on a rock or anything your at a disadvantage to someone whose modeled theirs sat down arms and legs tucked into their sides.

Fair enough, thought it was just worth asking. ETC seem to be going for a systematic system so it might become reasonably common anyway.

zelophahad

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Nethrag wrote:
I'd ignore this thread from now on if I were you Phil - I'll pm you if I think there's anything you'll be remotely interested in hearing about

You're a gent Jonny!

Khaosgoblin

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Excellent pack with just one major mistake, but its big enough to put off shed loads of players.

Who on earth thought it would be a good idea to play the watch tower scenario with a 2999 point army, the scenario has been dropped or heavilly modified by most organizers as it leads to the dullest games that can be often be decided by rolling 6 break tests.

On the true line of site, you wil find most players having a gentlemens agreement to ignore your ruling, the system you have was used at the maul last year but ignored by about 80% of the players.

Have enjoyed tha last three years events & am very glad to see the build up army idea still in use, this is my favorite event of the year, just dump the watchtower eh!

Khaosgoblin

Lovechunks

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perhaps a minor change could be the player controlling the watchtower earns an extra 500 or so VP?

Nethrag

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I send Neil the rule pack yesterday I think it was so the updated version should be up soon ish.

I'm going to have to bow to others knowledge on the watch tower scenario - its not one I've played a great deal of (never seem to roll it).

Others opinions please? I'm not going to dump the scenario entirely but am fine with changing it to be less all or nothing. Its certainly not a change I'd have any problems making if people feel this is the case. However do remember that not all the tournament points come from "winning the scenario", 5 out of the absolute max 20 come from victory points.

On the true line of site, you wil find most players having a gentlemens agreement to ignore your ruling, the system you have was used at the maul last year but ignored by about 80% of the players.

If both players agree they can of course do whatever they like, but if I'm asked to come over and make any kind of ruling on line of sight, these are the rules I'll be making the ruling based on.

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Last edited by Nethrag (2011-02-20 19:06:00)

walkingginger

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tempest 2 recently ran watchtower but with variation it didn't have to be a building but any scenery in the middle of the board. worked very well i thought. different dynamic to the game.

skcuzzlebumm

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Nethrag wrote:
I send Neil the rule pack yesterday I think it was so the updated version should be up soon ish.

Going to try and deal with it tonight. The problem is my laptop exploded on Thursday so have been busy trying to re-write essays (one was about to print when said disaster struck) and deal with the problems it is causing for the Indi GT.

vodrake

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Leave watchtower as it is, I think its fine, particularly becuase if your the person who controls it all game, the rest of your army usually gets thrashed.

Grotsmeg

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I like watchtower as extra VP's rather than this is the mission, but then again if i go with the flow ill be playing woodies so i will win

Lovechunks

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vodrake wrote:
Leave watchtower as it is, I think its fine, particularly becuase if your the person who controls it all game, the rest of your army usually gets thrashed.

Yep. played vodrake the other day and tabled his army bar the two remaining saurus in the watchtower so lost annoying, i can here people reaching for the key boards to type "se thats exactly why we should ban it" but the game did play out in a very different way tactically than what would have happened in another mission so to me its all apples and oranges.

Changing it to a VP boost scenario which I suggested has some pros and cons aswell. Its only 100VP to win the game now so players can still hold back and play mega defensive until turn 4 then hit the tower for the easy VP win. Also if your final 2999 game ends on turn 4 when your just gettin into it your gonna be pissed that youve paid a ton of cash for a long weekend youve finally got to nplay with your whole army and the game ends abruptly.
or alternatively the game goes for 8 full turns and players are pushed for time before the next match/packing up.

I think rather than change the scenario why not simply put it on as say, the 2200 battle, much earlier that way its less crucial than one of your 2999 games and on the first day where the games tend to be shorter anyway?

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Last edited by Lovechunks (2011-02-21 10:02:32)

Hugh

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I've had some good watchtower games but similarly they can be extremely one-sided. I once played against brets in that scenario and once I'd got a doombull and bestigor into the building there was nothing he could do to get them out.

As people have said, it's best if it's not all or nothing and also not suited to being the last game at an event. If you're playing the random length version then it can be difficult getting all the games finished (although with warhammer that's always a problem I guess ).

Michael's suggestion from Tempest is a good one - to use a hill or forest instead of a building. These kind of terrain features allow the fight for control of the objective to involve multiple units and to be fought in both players' turns.

Nethrag

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Its not the last scenario of the event - its game 5. Just to clear that up.

Lovechunks

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Hugh wrote:
Michael's suggestion from Tempest is a good one - to use a hill or forest instead of a building. These kind of terrain features allow the fight for control of the objective to involve multiple units and to be fought in both players' turns.

Yes seems sensible

vodrake

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Good old king of the hill!

illusionarypresence

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play it as last game sat, that way random length wont be a problem as time limit not on, and its smaller armies. i think hill would be better,, but thats only because GW have never produced a fair set of building rules ever.

Lovechunks

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Oh my god...I cant believe im saying this.... I agree with ian.

Grotsmeg

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and I agree with your both, I think i need to sit down.

Nethrag

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Ok, how does this sound.

The "watch tower" scenario will still be game 5 (game 4 is blood and glory for a reason and besides you get a shed load of time for the 2 games on the sunday anyway plus its just before lunch so you can run over a bit if you need).

However it will be a hill rather than a building that people are trying to control.

Also - to stop 1/6th of the games ending turn 4 the dice roll to determine if the game ends wont start until turn 5 (same dice roll needed - just imagine you automatically don't roll a 6 at the end of turn 4).

Sound ok? Or have I missed something?

Hugh

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Sounds good to me Jonny, cheers,
Hugh
(Only thing I'd add is that at Tempest earlier this month I think there was some confusion around the hall about how the scenarios had changed and some people mistakenly played them as out of the book - seems a lot of people don't read rules packs that thoroughly! Not sure what you can do to mitigate this though but I thought I'd mention it )

deadpool

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Not feeling the rulespack for this one. (Line of sight and spells being one use only mostly) Good luck with it though and I'll look forward to seeing the pack for net year.

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