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skcuzzlebumm

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Ok its high time we have a poll on this. Flame On as the voice and pulse of the 40k gaming community, ok maybe that is exageratting things somewhat. As the voice and pulse of BotC, it is time to make a decision:

Does the Doom of Malan'tai's Soul Leech power affect Embarked Units?

The 'Yes It Can' argument is well know:

This power DOES affect units embarked in transports, there is nothing in the Rule Book whatsoever that says unit are immune to anything whilst in a Transport. Obviously they cannot normally be shoot at, as you cannot draw LOS to them, but Soul Leech is NOT a shooting attack and so therefore does not follow any rules for shooting attacks.

The recent 40k Rule Book FAQ states the following:

Q. Can Psychic powers be used on a unit embarked on a transport?
A. For simplicity’s sake, the answer has to be a firm ‘No, unless the psyker himself is in the unit being transported’.

Sorry. You have to be registered to access this content.

But as Soul Leech is NOT a Psychic power this ruling does not apply.

Models that are embarked in transports, even those that are not Open-Topped nor have Fire Points can affect units on the outside of the Transport which wargear such as a Kustom Force Field. This is a unique item as is Soul Leech a unique form of attack.

.

The 'No It Can't' argument is:

The recent 40k Rule Book FAQ states the following:

Q. Can Psychic powers be used on a unit embarked on a transport?
A. For simplicity’s sake, the answer has to be a firm ‘No, unless the psyker himself is in the unit being transported’.

Sorry. You have to be registered to access this content.

Whilst we agree Soul Leech is not a Psychic power, area effect Psychic powers are the closest comparable thing.

Furthermore if it where to affect embarked units what happens if they suffer enough casualties to take a moral test? If it were able to do this, then GW would have covered this eventuality in the Tyranid Codex as the Rule Book does not.

It only costs 90 points; it is already under pointed for what it can do. If it were able to affect Embarked units it would certainly cost a lot more.

The head referees at the UK ToS GT Final ruled that it does not affect Embarked units, and it is likely that they received guidance from Games Development on this.

(sorry I am a bit rubbish in arguing for the No camp, if someone has more to add please tell me)

Discussion below - Votes into the Poll above.....

kong

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Neil I think part of your argument in the Yes box re: psychic powers clearly belongs in the No argument box

skcuzzlebumm

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Its does because it is used by both sides. Initially the No camp used it saying; its the closest example we have got. But then the Yes camp just turn around and say; its not a psychic power so this doesn't apply.

Ade

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yep and the crew of vehicles (but 40k doesn't have rules for attacking vehicle crew......)

Not vothing either way as I dont play the game anymore.

mike

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i voted no. for the pure reason that even without affecting models in vechiles the doom is still too good not to take!

Dr. Bizarre

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no. it makes it too good for it's points, not that it isn't already too good.

Jeridian

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I didn't vote similar to Ade, I won't be playing 40k at BotCh.

But I can't resist having an opinion- my experience is rusty but nothing before or since has directly affected models embarked in a transport (indirectly by the vehicle blowing up, for example), why should this be any different?

sjd83 · *T.O.D. 19:00 21-11-2011*

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I'd argue no because you can't ever directly shoot at a unit in a transport whether with regular shooting attacks or psychic attacks.

Iron_Mantis

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but it's not a shooting or psychic attack.
Also the vote will be skewed. I bet everyone who is a nid player will vote yes and those who aren't will vote no, bit obvious really.
Like if I put a vote on death rollers not doing d6 str 10 hits i bet most the non ork players will say no.

Jeridian

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There's a difference between a vote on an ambiguous rule and a vote on a rule that's clearly written. One is trying to clarify a rule, the other is trying to create a new House Rule.

skcuzzlebumm

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Its not that skewed as there are certainly more than 6 nid players here (the current number of yes votes) and it is only for BotC so I would expect common sense, not competitiveness to prevail.

Dasyatis

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Iron_Mantis wrote:
but it's not a shooting or psychic attack.
Also the vote will be skewed. I bet everyone who is a nid player will vote yes and those who aren't will vote no, bit obvious really.

Nah.

I play Tyranids but I don`t think it effects things in transports. I kind of view transports as one-way-steel. Things can do stuff out of them, but not in to them (IMHO). It keeps things nice and simple.

wanderingrogue

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for example, if pushed to vote on death rollers id say no despite it helping me in games as it broken for the points....dooms the same so i voted no.

Iron_Mantis

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I agree that they shouldn't be able to affect stuff in vehicles but I thought we were voting on the rule as it's written which is why I said yes. But if we are making our own house rule then I say no.

sjd83 · *T.O.D. 19:00 21-11-2011*

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To make things interesting, you could flip a coin on the day and go 'Heads: Yes, Tails: No' Take all the debate out of it and go with chance.

mike

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Iron_Mantis wrote:
I agree that they shouldn't be able to affect stuff in vehicles but I thought we were voting on the rule as it's written which is why I said yes. But if we are making our own house rule then I say no.

muppet

Nature Boy

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Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 43

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

I say no to this. I'm not at BOTCH (unless someone drops out) but there is no precedent for units taking damage inside a transport beyond damage they inflict upon themselves, eg perils and gets hot. It is also impractical from a game perspective. For example if multiple wound units (i.e meganobz) start taking wounds when they're not even on the table then the we start placing wound markers on models still on the tray! Which would be silly.

I'd also like to add that I'm a nid player.

commie bob

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::importPlugin() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/viewtopic.php on line 598

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 92

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 501

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 67

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 73

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFactory::getDBO() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 24

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 26

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::getPlugin() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 39

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 41

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRegistryFormat::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/registry.php on line 373

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::clean() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/format.php on line 45

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 42

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 43

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

i said no, even though i am playing epic and the doom didn't really do that much to my daemons, it is a total bummer and just opens up to many rules, just the fact that it can't see them for a start would be a good place to start, even if you do let it through the guys inside would get some sort of jog on save

skcuzzlebumm

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::importPlugin() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/viewtopic.php on line 598

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 92

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 501

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 67

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 73

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFactory::getDBO() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 24

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 26

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::getPlugin() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 39

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 41

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRegistryFormat::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/registry.php on line 373

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::clean() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/format.php on line 45

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 42

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 43

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Well 1 day to go and it looks like a resounding no, I'm going to add it into the FAQ document.

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