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Nethrag

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Ok - really need some peoples opinions on these scenarios for BotCH. These are the secondary objectives (worth 5 tournament points in a 30-10-1 scoring system) that take place alongside the pitched battles.

For the objectives I need BOTH players to be theoretically able to achieve them during a game. So no "whoever has the most x wins" type objectives. These are some of the ones I've come up with, any comments or ideas for other scenarios? Which two of the 8 do you think I should drop?

Secondary Objectives

To add an extra dynamic to the games, each game will include a secondary objective, worth 5
tournament points to each side that completes it (all of the objectives can be completed by
both sides during a game).

Game 1: “Cut off their head” - An army can’t function properly without the general.
Objective: Kill the enemy general

Game 2: “Break their back”. - scatter their forces to the winds.
Objective: Destroy half (rounding up) of your opponents core choices, excluding any unit that does not count towards their compulsory Core units. (e.g. if enemy DE army had a unit of spearmen, a unit of dark riders and a unit of harpies, they have 2 core units which count (spears and riders), killing either of them would get you the objective.

Game 3: “…and your next!”. - No-one likes seeing their supposed “best” cut down like grass.
Objective: Destroy the enemies most expensive unit (not including any attached characters), if
there are two or more units that cost the same, killing any of them will count towards the
objective.

Game 4: “Send for help”. - You need to get a message through to the rest of your army.
Objective: Get a messenger model off your opponents board edge. The model has the same stats as an empire inner circle knight. He may never declare a charge. Any model on a cavalry base can be used to represent the messenger, one will be provided if you do not have a suitable minature (though it’s unlikely to fit your army)

Game 5: “Capture that ground”. - Sometimes holding a terrain feature is more important than how many enemy you kill.
Objective: Capture an enemy table quarter.

Game 6: “Hold this position!” – you need to hold onto this site.
Objective: Both players place a marker somewhere in their deployment zones at least 12” away from a short board edge and 6” away from the long board edge. To complete the objective you must have a unit (not a single model) of US5+ closer to it than any of your opponents units.

Game 7: “Heretic!”. – They are an affront to the Gods, they must be punished.
Objective: To complete the objective you must kill 2 enemy characters/units which generate power or dispel dice (incantations and bound spells/items count as generating power dice). If the enemy army only has one such unit, killing them will grant you the points. If the enemy has no such units, killing a unit with magical protection (magic resistance, ring of hotek, banner which makes them immune to magic, transfers spells onto different units etc.etc.) If the enemy has no such units then you automatically achieve the objective.

Game 8: “Break their Will” – standards aren’t just rallying points, they’re symbols.
Objective: To complete the objective you must capture half (rounding up) of the enemy banners and hold them at the end of the game (BSB's and peasant banners count). For the purposes of the scenario (not victory points) a banner will be considered captured if the enemy unit/BSB is completely destroyed in combat (choose which unit is carrying it if the combat involved multiple units) or run down.

Matt Dodge

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Are the secondary scenarios secret missions as per the GT?

Grotsmeg

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I dont think they can be secret.
The only problem with Game 8 is armies without standard get and instant bonus.
and im not sure about game 2. i think core choices need to be encouraged and that could deter some people.
I would prefer it to be about destroying Special and rare choices.

How about game 1 you change to capture the general, where you capture him like a standard (still counts as dead for game purposes) but for the mission he is held in the unit that defeats him unless rescued, by the unit being defeated in combat.

Nethrag

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No, they will not be secret and even the order of them will be written in the rules pack.

The only problem with Game 8 is armies without standard get and instant bonus.

No they don't - the opponent gets the bonus.

and im not sure about game 2. i think core choices need to be encouraged and that could deter some people.
I would prefer it to be about destroying Special and rare choices.

It does the opposite of that rich. The more core choices you have the more your opponent needs to kill to get the bonus. If you only have one or two core units your opponent just needs to kill 1 to claim the bonus.

Grotsmeg

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Sorry you misunderstand... if you dont have any standards in your army then the opponent cant get the bonus. Unless you mean that if you have an army with no banners then you this is an autocomplete for the other player. he has no banners to capture then he auto completes the mission (seems slightly wrong!)

It does the opposite of that rich. The more core choices you have the more your opponent needs to kill to get the bonus. If you only have one or two core units your opponent just needs to kill 1 to claim the bonus

But in reverse the less core you have the more other units you have to protect them. And some core are better than others... Brett core are pretty damned good where as most empire core suck.
This mission although it seems fair on the face i think favours the harder core forces like bretts and makes the idea of taking empire a bit more of a risk.

I would like to see something that gives us a reason not to see 2 steam tank and a pope army. (etc)

But of course the flavour of the mission wil be totally warped by the size of the army your playing against.

For example game 3.
Game 3: “…and your next!”. - No-one likes seeing their supposed “best” cut down like grass.
Would be a bit of a bummer at 2.5k with 2 stanks against you. (unless you have an army specificly built to deal with it!)

Not sure what your planning with comp though, so i think its the rules as a whole that matters, as its impossible to analyse each component without cross comparing the rules.

Frog

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they all seem fine to me. actually they all seem quite fun!

i like the idea of one model trying to get to the other side during the battle!

Game 6: “Hold this position!”, really works, looking forward to it!

Nethrag wrote:
Game 7: “Heretic!”. – They are an affront to the Gods, they must be punished.
Objective: To complete the objective you must kill 2 enemy characters/units which generate power or dispel dice (incantations and bound spells/items count as generating power dice). If the enemy army only has one such unit, killing them will grant you the points. If the enemy has no such units, killing a unit with magical protection (magic resistance, ring of hotek, banner which makes them immune to magic, transfers spells onto different units etc.etc.) If the enemy has no such units then you automatically achieve the objective.

would you in game 7 then have to tell the opponent which unit your magic banner is in?/ which character has what magic items?
- you may not want to expose that them?

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Last edited by Frog (2010-01-25 16:07:22)

Grotsmeg

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I would hope not, keep em guessing. Of course those with army knowledge will have an advantage.

Jeridian

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Banners- Can't see a problem. Taking banners is generally a 100pt freebie for the opponent, so a secondary mission where taking none is a penalty can only improve the number.

Core Troops- If your core is weaker, they cost less pts, hence you can have more of them- you have more of them, the opponent must kill more of them- and vice versa for strong core.

Of course those with army knowledge will have an advantage.

I've found out the hard way this is true for much of Warhammer- being true of the secondary missions won't be that much different.

Nethrag

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Sorry you misunderstand...

No I don't rich. If the enemy has 0 banners, then half rounded up of zero is zero. i.e. their opponent will automatically gain the bonus objective points. i.e. this should encourage people to take banners. I may even write in the rule pack for all games that banners are not 100vp per banner but 100vp to the person who has captured the most banners. All to try and encourage people to use them.

And some core are better than others... Brett core are pretty damned good where as most empire core suck.

There's obviously nothing I can do about that Rich.

I would like to see something that gives us a reason not to see 2 steam tank and a pope army. (etc)

That would be Timmy comped (and I don't think even likely due to the way the army selection system works.

would you in game 7 then have to tell the opponent which unit your magic banner is in?/ which character has what magic items?

If your army included no model/unit which generated power/dispel dice (unlikely at the 2.5k level whre this mission would be being played) then yes, you would have to reveal

Grotsmeg

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Game 3.
OK im pursuaded in the positive on this. just one question though. does killing mean all forms of unit destruction e.g combat, running of the board. swallowed by little timmy.

Nethrag

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destroyed means destroyed yes.

REMEMBER IF YOU COULD ALL SAY WHICH 2 OUT OF THE 8 YOU THINK SHOULD BE DROPPED

(or even better come up with some other ideas for scenarios which could work)

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Last edited by Nethrag (2010-01-26 14:59:31)

Grotsmeg

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Out of that list i would drop game 8 and game 5 as you already get points for table quarters and banners (i know you also do for generals but i like the capture the general scenarios esp if you use my idea for getting him back..)

I also liked the GT scenario of getting units into the enemy Deployment zone.

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Last edited by Grotsmeg (2010-01-26 15:08:51)

Frog

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i would drop 7, as it seems unfair, but only as you said they dident have magic. (thinking of friends who would be upset with that )

i would maybe drop 8, as its complicated. maybe just change it to, capture 2 ememy banners? thats going to hard enouth!

but for the most part mate i like them. well done!

walkingginger

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I think 7 and 8 are the weakest. Are you going to allow flying units to capture stuff? I also liked the getting into enemy deployment zone scenario from GT. although is not as easy for all armies.

commie bob

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i know one of the missions from carnage last year was more unit strength 10+ within 12 of the centre than your opponent, that could be a nice one

Nethrag

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Cheers bob, and others for the suggestions. I too hve nagging dobts about 7, as I don't think it accomplish's anything really and may even be rewarding magic heavy armies. It certainly peanalises anyone who doesn't want to take a mage - not something that should be happening really as they'd already be at a disadvantage!

Ok, so assuming 7 and 8 get dropped, that leaves me with 3 "Kill X" scenarios and three other types - that seems a good mix.
Getting a model off the board I like.
Capturing objective in enemy deployment zone I like.

For the last one would people rather capture
1) an enemy table quarter or
2) Bobs suggestion of the centre of the board.

Grotsmeg

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I prefer centre of the board (or a randomly placed objective!) as it means you could potentially not get the table quarter but could get the objective, or combinations.

Nethrag

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remember rich - table quarters will not be 100vp each. Whoever holds the most will get 100vp.

Added 01.27.2010 11:43:55:
ah balls, just realised centre of table doesn't work at all. Like I said in the beginning BOTH players need to be able to complete the objective.

Grotsmeg

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yeah so you could get most table counters and the objective, most table counters and no objective. Fail to get most table counter and get the objective, or totally fail

so for table quarters equal give no result but for holding the objective would any unit str 5 (or 10) unit be able to contest and deny the objective, or would you use the largest US wins?

Nethrag

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Rich - your gonna have to use sentances for me to understand what your asking in that first part.

For claiming objectives it's the closest unit that would count. Probably going to do US5+, no flyers, no single models, no raised units, but like I said we can't do one objective in the middle of the board. It doesn't work as it's impossible for both players in a game to complete that objective.

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Last edited by Nethrag (2010-01-27 22:24:27)

Grotsmeg

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Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 501

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 67

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 73

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFactory::getDBO() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 24

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 26

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::getPlugin() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 39

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 41

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRegistryFormat::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/registry.php on line 373

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::clean() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/format.php on line 45

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 42

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 43

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

10 years in prison, hows that for a sentance?

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Secondary scenarios for BotCH

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