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Jeridian

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Secrets of the Third Reich- Review
Having generously been lent this book by Ade, it’s definitely a book on my long-term buying list (i.e. when I have money to spend).
First in the book is the background.

Background
World War 2 is one of the most evocative and interesting wars of modern times, spawning endless films and computer games.
The only way to make a WW2 setting even more enticing from a war game perspective is to make it even more grimdark than reality, and throw in a few mythical creatures.

Putting the vampires, zombies, werewolves and alien tech to one side for the moment- there are some chillingly plausible ‘alternate timeline’ events.

Germany could, and interestingly didn’t, unleash chemical and biological warfare both on the Western front in Normandy, through France and Belgium and on the Eastern Front.
In both theatres the resultant loss of life and the drastic need to pull back troops and fully kit them with protective clothing (especially the conscript armies of Russia) would have stalled the advance into the Reich. It would have introduced a vital delay that Germany could use to develop their V-weapons, their jet engine fighters, their V-2’s, their infrared scopes, their improving tanks.
And it could have sapped the will of the Western allies to push forward so aggressively, collapsing into a more trench-like stalemate.
With this stalemate going into 1946, America unleashes it’s second atom bomb not on Japan, but on Berlin as Germany is still a dominant threat- bringing the horror of radiation to Europe. Germany was on the verge of developing their own atomic project and had the V-2 ready to deliver it, whilst America would have a delay before it could produce more atom bombs (the two used where the only completed ones, I think).

This new horror of war used by both sides drives the casualties on both sides to even higher levels, in the billions. With Paris, London and even areas of the US coming under bombs.

A slightly more unlikely schism between Russia and the Western Allies causes the war to split 3 ways (or 4 ways if you consider Japan only a formal ally of Germany) as Russia occupies neutral Sweden for its resources. Neutral fascist Spain also joins the war to reoccupy Italy and southern France, lifting pressure of the German army to move elsewhere.

All in all this ‘what if’ is fascinating and disturbing, because although looking back at the history books the war’s end was inevitable, it really wasn’t.

Secret of the Third Reich then takes a step further into fantasy with the German developed V-gas turning millions into zombies along the front lines, with vampires and werewolves secretly fighting alongside the armies, reverse-engineered Roswell alien tech and the ‘anime manga’ robots that every new war game seems compelled to include.

This fantastical element could turn off die-hard historical (though they’d probably be put off by the hypothetical warzone in 1949 anyway) players, but coming from 40k I find it easier to mix guns with monsters.

The Rules
Background is one thing, but no-one actually plays the background, they play the game.

First insights where that reassuringly every wargame ruleset I’ve seen has a suspiciously high amount of identical rules and conventions ‘inspired’ by earlier/other games (it makes my shameless robbing attempts less conspicuous).

In Secrets of the Third Reich for example, we see the 4” human move, 8” running at the double without shooting- very Necromunda. We also see shooting with D6, on a 4+ being the normal human accuracy. Finally, the ‘Cool’ statistic and tests are very similar to Leadership tests.
There are many other examples in the book, but I think it’s a case of some things in wargaming just being the most intuitive, logical and simplest way to represent an action. Why fix what isn’t broken? Why change something for change’s sake? Which is pretty much the logic behind my wargame attempt.

Turns as far as I can tell split into the Move, Shoot, Assault phases with each player activating their units in each phase before moving onto the next. Is this similar to Lord of the Rings?
It seems a halfway house between a full-on I Go- U Go turn sequence with players alternating doing everything with their armies, and the I Activate- U Activate sequence with players alternating completely a single units actions with the opponent.

Level of detail I’d argue is slightly below Firefight (i.e. more detailed) where models get to Hide, Sneak Around, go Down (ahem, Necro) as a halfway between Fine and Dead. Whilst vehicles have individual Damage Charts of legs/front/turret/etc.

A significant decision they’ve made which sets the game apart from its nearest comparison (Necromunda with unit coherencies IMO) is to have no Model Profiles (ie. Set of statistic numbers determining abilities).
Instead the basic rules are aimed at the standard human soldier. A catalogue of Special Rules are used to make a model stand out as different to a human soldier. If they are exceptionally tough there’s an ‘exceptionally tough’ special rule, if they are braver than normal there’s a ‘braver’ special rule and so on for a variety of abilities.

Similarly weapons don’t have a Strength or Armour modifier instead they fall into a category of weapon (for example, most rifles are Light Infantry class) with this Penetration Class being cross-referenced against the target’s Armour Class in much the same way as Strength numbers cross-referenced with Toughness numbers- to get the required dice roll. With no Armour Saves, these are no doubt factored into the Armour Class of the target too.

Coming from a maths background, and with my gaming history of GW games based on numbered profiles I find the Secrets of the Third Reich a little convoluted, but once you learn the different categories I see the gameplay in terms of dice rolls and damage inflicted to be very similar to Necromunda and other GW games.

Summary
It looks like a game I’d look into in the long-term. It’s not different enough from games like Necromunda or 2nd Ed 40k for me to invest deeply into it at this point, I think the level of detail is just that little too deep for the scale of 28mm game I’d like to play (8-10 units of 4 infantry/1 tank/3-man Gun, MG or mortar teams, etc). I’m aiming at not recording when each model is Down or Hidden, or the damage on the turret of that tank for scale.

A plus in its favour is that the 28mm WW2 models I’d collect to play it could be used in other 28mm WW2 wargames.

For Firefight, there are a lot of ideas and conventions shared between it and Secrets of the Third Reich, but they are the ideas and conventions Secrets already shares with Necro, 2nd Ed 40k, etc.

Of course, who can argue with Zombie Nazis.

Ade

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from my interpretation of the rules and after reading the forum players alternate activations to move and shoot with combat happening at the end (but I could be wrong and don't have the book to check right now )

Jeridian

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I have the book and it's still a bit confusing.

I think you have:

1 Turn Initiative Phase- Players determine who activates first in each phase.
2 Maintenanance Phase- Resolve Down models and scenario effects.
3 Command Phase- Officers give orders like Overwatch, Regroup, Form Up. This is where it gets confusing, as some are done during the Action Phase, some appear not to be.
4 Action Phase- Players alternate moving and shooting with units.
5 Close Combat Phase- Players alternate resolving any close combats started in Action Phase.

So it is halfway between U Go I Go and U Activate I Activate. With Commands sometimes performed before units activate, units then activating alternately, and then all close combat being resolved.

It is closer to the Epic method of U Activate I Activate than the U Go I go than I realised, but there's still some lag over units. I prefer the clean cut "I do everything I want with this unit, and it is done unless the opponent affects it- Then you do everything you want to with that unit, and it is done unless I affect it"- it's easier to remember.

Curis

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Sod all that. What interests me is awesome models.

Some of the others, not so good-looking. I might treat myself to a blister if I finish off some other painting projects.

Mercenarygeneral

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the game plays alot better than the rules read, so best thing to do is give it a go,
ive not played it for a while but there are still some die-hard fans who play it in the centre, if anyone wants a game

pw

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Curis, you're right there! I've bought the whole set of Incursion stuff and it's fabulous. The game itself is basically Space Hulk with a few tweaks. Overall I think I like it a little more than SH, largely because the board is so quick to set up. Here are my US Marines:

Curis

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Those are things of beauty.

commie bob

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got to like the HMG marine suit there

Ade

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very nicely done, mine are still sprayed green and that's it.

Incursion has advantages over SH, you dont need a 6'x4' board to play it on for a start and both sides have missions not one side trying to do something and the other side trying to stop them.

pw

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With such kind words I might just have to take some pics of their enemies, the SWD. Although having 'un-rudified' one of the Von X Sisters I'm not sure they'll meet with approval...

And Ade's right about the missions in Incursion, I hadn't thought about that but the fact that the 'not genestealers' often have a mission of their own is pretty cool. And the board fitting on a coffee table is a major bonus - no floor-based jigsaw for me!

Curis

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Please do - yours are the first real-world examples of the painted models, and they're rather good.

Setting up the board is half the fun of Space Hulk. "Where do we put the Tau door? It makes no narrative sense there. What does the Blood Angel throne look at?" (Maybe I'm just a frustrated Town Planner.)

pw

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Here you go, some hastily snapped pics...

A clothed version of Gretel:

Ilsa:

Their brother Hans:

And their pet dog...

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Warning: date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/include/functions.php on line 629

Last edited by pw (2010-07-09 09:52:08)

Ade

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Looking good there.

Curis

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Gretel's thighs bothered you that much? Hee.

Hans looks superb. How'd you do the skin?

I like your blood splatter effects. That a red ink or Testors?

pw

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Hans' skin is a pretty simple affair. Tallarn flesh, Ogryn Skin wash, Tallarn flash highlight, then a single highlight of a mix of thinned Dwarf flesh and bleached bone.

The blood is a mix of inks. It's a mix of GW's old red, black and purple inks done in a few coats. I think I went for three coats, the first quite dark, the second the same but very thin and painted over a larger area and the last coat is almost pure red. It's then been gloss varnished once the matt spray has dried to bring out the shine. To be honest the flash photography has given it a shine that it hasn't got in real life.

Nothing on these figures took much time really, the key for me was to get them to a decent tabletop quality as fast as possible. Now all I need are another 20 zombies... Oh, and if anyone's interested, the resin game pieces (doors etc) from Fenris games are pretty good. I'm told they're now working on the missing British robot thingy and then a full 3D board.

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Last edited by pw (2010-07-09 21:57:52)

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