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skcuzzlebumm

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Yep I still have them and now that Mike has taken back his WoC I need a quick and cheap army for 8th, so if Gary doesn't want to buy them (or anyone else for that matter) then Dwarves it is. Here is my first 8th Ed list based off what little I know from speaking to people (not bought the book yet) and what I have in my collection (to make it as cheap as possible):

Lord: Shield Bearers, Great Weapon, Resistance, Rune of Preservation, Master Rune of Steel, Master Rune of Challenge = 291
**** So 2+ Re-rollable save, can only ever be wounded on a max of 4+ (S5), is immune to all Killing Blows and has a Siren

Thane (65) BSB (25) Master Rune of Gromril (25) Rune of Preservation (15) Rune of Resistance (25) = 155
**** Standard 1+ re-rollable save and is immune to all Killing Blows

Runesmith (70) Shield (2) x2 Runes of Spell Breaking (50) Rune of Stone = 127
**** Scroll caddie

18 Longbeards (144+54) Shields (18) Full Command (25) = 241
**** BSB and Runepriest in here to make it 5x4

40 Warriors (320) Shields (40) Full Command (25) = 385

40 Warriors (320) Shields (40) Full Command (25) = 385
**** 2 hordes of warriors to from mega tarpits

10 Thunderers (140) = 140

10 Thunderers (140) = 140
**** 2 small shooty units taking advantage of been able to fire in 2 ranks so not taking up too much space.

18 Hammers (264) Shields (22) Full Command (30) = 268
**** Lord in here to make 5x4

Grudgethrower (80) Accuracy (25) Engineer (15) = 120
**** Can re-roll both the artillery and scatter dice.

Cannon (90) Rune of Forging (35) = 125
**** re-roll artillery dice

Organ Gun = 120
**** Bang, Bang, still my favourite artillery

Total = 2,497 pts
**** supposedly 2.5k is likely to be the new standard size

Opinions please?

WarbossKurgan

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I can't comment on Dwarfs but I think 2400 points is more likely.... for maths reasons!

Dasyatis

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WarbossKurgan wrote:
I can't comment on Dwarfs but I think 2400 points is more likely.... for maths reasons!

Do tell.

I`m assuming its because its easier to break down into quarters ?

WarbossKurgan

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Pretty much!

Benthomas

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Looks pretty decent to me. Its a shame that Shieldbearers dont protect from Killing Blow any more.

I would try and find 5 points for a rune of +1 WS on the BSB. Gives him magical attacks and means that nothing is really hitting on 3s, and WS3 stuff is on 5s.

I'm not totally convinced Hammerers are the answer any more. Since they now HAVE to use the GWs in combat they will fall over fairly quickly consiedering the greater number of attacks. I almost think Ironbreakers are a more viable choice now.

Put shields on Thunderers, always.

Not played enough 8th yet to comment on the big blocks but my immediate thought is that you dont need 2 of them. Maybe 1 big block, 1 smaller support block with GWs and then maybe put the other points into Bolt Throwers.

Just some thoughts.

Ben

skcuzzlebumm

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Benthomas wrote:
I'm not totally convinced Hammerers are the answer any more. Since they now HAVE to use the GWs in combat they will fall over fairly quickly consiedering the greater number of attacks.

Why do they have to use their great weapons, surely you still have the choice?

Jeridian

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Aye, you have to use a special close combat weapon (i.e. anything not a hand weapon) if you've got it.

Add to that the Hammerers Stubborn ain't that special any more with everyone with a rank more than you getting it.

Oh, and Fear/Terror is nowhere near as scary. Fear only making you WS 1 on a failed Ld test, Hammerers having the same Ld as every other Dwarf unit.

That said, I still have a unit of 15.

Stubborn and Immune the Fear are essentially free, as to make Longbeards have GW's and be stat-wise identical costs 1 pt more per model.

skcuzzlebumm

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That is really shit! I don't have the book yet, waiting for a mini one as the big one is too big for carrying around, hence asking. So that is defo going to be my old metal longbeards posing as hammers being used as something else :-(

I did though have a filthy idea today that having a massive unit of longbeard rangers could be really good. i.e take a 40 strong horde so you can pump out 20 S5 throwing axes on the move, and when being charged. Then backed up by up to 20 WS4 S6 attacks aint bad (ok the axe thing was what was most interesting).

But that thing about the hammers REALLY suck balls!

Back to the drawing board.

skcuzzlebumm

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Ok after stalking Gill on facebook to ask rules questions I have come up with a new, super agressive Dwarf list:

Thane: Pistol, Shield, Rune of Resistance, Rune of Stone, Master Rune of Challenge, Rune of Brotherhood = 147
*** Deploys with Rangers, has Siren Song and a 2+ re-rollable save.

Thane: BSB, Rune of Striking, Master Rune Gromril, Rune of Resistance, Rune of Preservation = 165
*** WS7, immune to Killing Blow, Heroic Killing Blow & Poison and has 1+ re-rollable save

Runesmith: Shield, Rune of Stone, x2 Runes of Spellbreaking = 127
*** 2 scrolls and 2+ save

29 Longbeard Rangers: Throwing Axes, Shields, Full Command, x2 Rune of Sanctuary, Rune of Determination = 481
*** S5 Throwing axes that can Scout, MR2 and can take a single break test on 1D6

30 Warriors: Shields, Full Command = 295

30 Warriors: Shields, Full Command = 295

14 Thunderers = 196

28 Ironbreakers: Full Command, Master Rune of Grungi = 444
*** All units in 6" gain 5+ ward against shooting and magic missiles, both BSB and Runesmith join

Cannon: Rune of Forging = 125
*** Re-roll artillery dice

Grudgethrower: Rune of Accuracy = 105
**** Re-roll scatter dice

Organ Gun = 120

Total = 2,500

So as you can see I have gone a little giddy for the horde rule with lots of units of 30. Obviously casualties will reduce the effectiveness of the horde, 40 strong units would be ideal, but they are T4 with good saves and wards against magic.

The Rangers are a really agressive element with them deploying within 12" of the enemy with the potential for 20 S5 throwing axes is pretty tasty.

Opinions.

wanderingrogue

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See, I like that

blessed knight

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Jeridian wrote:
Oh, and Fear/Terror is nowhere near as scary. Fear only making you WS 1 on a failed Ld test, Hammerers having the same Ld as every other Dwarf unit.

fear could be annoying though as you test each round regardless of pass or fail.

also terror is a bit better as its lost the old rule saying units that pass a terror test don't test again during the game.

List wise, looks a nice solid core with the 5+ ward vs shooting.
DD, hex and vortexes would still hurt though

What would you lose from the list if standard games stayed at 2k?

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Last edited by blessed knight (2010-07-25 10:23:14)

skcuzzlebumm

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I would probably re-write entirely rather than play around trying to remove whole units etc

The REALLY good thing is that the 2nd list is basically my collection, all I need to do is buy 5 models and its all there!

Jeridian

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fear could be annoying though as you test each round regardless of pass or fail.

Far, far less annoying than Outnumbered by a Fear Causer Autobreak. That ensured regardless of how good your Leadership, all they needed was one more guy to wipe you out.

I'll take the risk of WS1 anyday over that, Outnumber by a Fear Causer and the massive divide between Fear Causers and Fearful was one of the things that put me off 7th Ed.

skcuzzlebumm

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+1 to what SI said above

skcuzzlebumm

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So 1 month on and I am still plugging away at the Dwarves and then realise the points are off for the above list. Namely that I have forgotten to pay for the Great Weapons on those Rangers..... doh!!! That's 58pts I need to find...

Furthermore reading various tactica I am now starting to agree that 5x5 for steadfast over a Horde is better for dwarves due to their points cost. Which then means my big concern now is that the Longbeard Ranger block is looking REALLY expensive! Would it maybe be better deploying as a 25 strong block? I would loose 10 S5 Throwing Axes and 11-20 S6 Great Weapon attacks (depending on if I am facing a 5 wide or up to 10 wide unit). However I would gain 5 ranks so more likely to be steadfast and 1 extra rank for static combat res. They are also going to be very isolated up front so I am thinking more and more is it really worth it?

N.B the list would end up like this:

Thane: Shield, Rune of Resistance, Rune of Stone, Master Rune of Challenge, Rune of Brotherhood = 142

Thane: BSB, Rune of Striking, Master Rune Gromril, Rune of Resistance, Rune of Preservation = 165

Runesmith: Shield, Rune of Stone, Master Rune of Balance = 127

29 Longbeard Rangers: Throwing Axes, Shields, Full Command, Rune of Determination = 509
**** lost the magic res

25 Warriors: Shields, Full Command = 250

25 Warriors: Shields, Full Command = 250

14 Thunderers = 196

23 Ironbreakers: Full Command, Master Rune of Grungi = 379

Cannon: Rune of Forging = 125

Grudgethrower: Rune of Accuracy, Rune of Reloading = 115

Organ Gun = 120

Organ Gun = 120
*** gained an organ gun

Total = 2,498
(H: 17%, C: 48%, S: 25%, R: 10%)

That Ranger block is looking REALLY pricey..... opinions?

Jeridian

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As I've said elsewhere I think Horde is a gimmick or red herring. Especially for expensive elite soldiers.

For a start your only getting all those extra attacks if your opponent foolishly shows up with his gimmick 10xwide Horde too.

I've been working with 3x5 units at 2000pts. Dwarfs have the Leadership and natural resilience to slog it out- especially with no Outnumber by Fear Causer, or Outnumber Combat Res bonus.

At 2500pts the first thing I'd do is bulk my formations to 4x5, but I've not seen the need for 25-30 strong.

Grotsmeg

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Si it could be a gimick for dwarves i think skaven and goblins etc are more likely to get benefit from it.
but its going to be interesting to see how it pans out.

More games needed methinks. funny how my warriors list has a 5x5 block as well... and that was planned towards the end of 7th ed.

Jeridian

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Give it a few weeks and Hordes will be relegated to troops costing 4pts or less.

I'd much rather have 2 units of 15 than 1 unit of 30 is all I'm saying. But what do I know, I played 7th Ed and apparently missed all the high end tactics and strategy it involved,

skcuzzlebumm

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At least you played 7th Ed

skcuzzlebumm

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So would this list (no hordes) appease you a bit more Si?

Runelord: Anvil of Doom, Master Rune of Balance = 365

Thane: BSB, Rune of Striking, Master Rune Gromril, Rune of Resistance, Rune of Preservation = 165

Runesmith: Shield, Rune of Stone, Rune of Spellbreaking = 102

23 Longbeards: Shields, Full Command, Master Rune of Grungi = 351

25 Warriors: Shields, Full Command = 250

25 Warriors: Shields, Full Command = 250

10 Thunderers = 140

10 Quarrellers = 110

12 Miners: Full Command = 157

Cannon: Rune of Forging = 125

Grudgethrower: Rune of Accuracy = 105

Organ Gun = 120

Organ Gun = 120

Gyrocopter = 140

Total = 2,500

I get +5 Dispel dice, opponent gets -1 Power Die, I think I like this list a lot more

Nethrag

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Re horde.
I have 3 units capable of hoarding it up. 40 ungor with spears, 30 gor with ahw and 30 bestigor.
Ungor work because they're cheap. Though theyd would reform to steadfast if against a foe that's too well armoured for them to hurt.

Gor I'm undecided if it's worth horde or not (but that's the good thing about us30 no list changing if I decide to only go 6 wide.)

Bestigor are made for horde. Single attack, high strength, reroll to hit, nothing wasted in terms of only getting one supporting attack and every extra attack counts (against an enemy steadfast formation i get 18 attacks compared to the 10 I'd get if I went 5 wide, obv more against an enemy horde if one exists).

The reason it works is that there is a stubborn character in there so I know I won't break (unless I get unlucky).

Re dwarves. The only unit I can think of that'd potentially be worth hoarding is hammerers. Ie. high strength and your already stubborn so no massive need for steadfast.

The problem with dwarves is, your troops are very survivable but can't really kill much themselves (so not much benefit from horde). I think your characters need to be designed to make up for that so I'd be taking gw toting lords/heroes rather than the anvil.

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Last edited by Nethrag (2010-08-25 18:55:57)

Grotsmeg

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Ogre Hoard FTW 18 ogres in your face... (IIRC ogre hoards are 6 wide?)

skcuzzlebumm

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Correct but then isn't that costing around 600pts?

Grotsmeg

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Well over 600 points, esp if its ironguts. thats actually over 1000 points with full command.

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Last edited by Grotsmeg (2010-08-26 11:33:37)

Nethrag

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Units of 6 IG did pretty well for me last couple of games I played with them .

Re: horde again. Si's right in the fact that you can't expect to get the entire width of your formation in the majority of the time. You have to work out how many extra attacks you get against a 5 wide formation.
I.e. For 20mm vs 20mm you go from getting 11 attacks to 22 (Inc champ). Then you have to decide if they're worth losing steadfast over.

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Last edited by Nethrag (2010-08-27 15:32:11)

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