«--

Grotsmeg

Warning: Creating default object from empty value in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/viewtopic.php on line 597

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::importPlugin() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/viewtopic.php on line 598

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 92

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JLoader::import() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/loader.php on line 186

Strict Standards: Non-static method JLoader::import() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/loader.php on line 186

Strict Standards: Non-static method JLoader::import() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/loader.php on line 186

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JLoader::import() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/loader.php on line 186

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 486

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JLoader::import() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/loader.php on line 186

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 486

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JLoader::import() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/loader.php on line 186

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 486

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JLoader::import() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/loader.php on line 186

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 486

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JLoader::import() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/loader.php on line 186

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 486

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 501

Strict Standards: Non-static method JLoader::load() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/loader.php on line 161

Strict Standards: Non-static method JLoader::register() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/loader.php on line 138

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 67

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 73

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFactory::getDBO() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 24

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 26

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::getPlugin() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 39

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 41

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRegistryFormat::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/registry.php on line 373

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::clean() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/format.php on line 45

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 42

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 43

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Wouldnt it be easier if steadfast was on the units base leadership only (which i believe is the norm) and couldnt get the +1 ld for each rank.
That does seem to be the only major niggle is it not.

Nethrag

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::importPlugin() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/viewtopic.php on line 598

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 92

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 501

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 67

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 73

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFactory::getDBO() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 24

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 26

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::getPlugin() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 39

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 41

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRegistryFormat::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/registry.php on line 373

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::clean() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/format.php on line 45

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 42

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 43

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Are there really any other units as bad as skaven slaves when it comes to a combination of points cost and Ld for steadfast?

Gnoblars are just as bad as slaves and goblins can get pretty close. Also mainstay wasn't model for model it was unit for unit.

does it really?

imo yes. The numbers you've given are bad enough to me for the Lv 2 - esp as needing a 7+ on two dice must be a fail about 40% of the time? And like I said Lv 1's are stuffed with a lot of spells. It's also (imo) a bigger change to a game mechanic that what we've already got.

how many times did you used to irrestible when only throwing 4 dice in 7th? once or twice a game if your lucky

You only need to miscast once now for those items to be far too good for what they cost - the miscast table being so much worse is the point here rather than the increased chance of miscasting (there is no roll which a puppet can't either drop to 50% cahnce to kill wizard or lose d3 magic levels).

Added 02.07.2011 16:53:32:

8th Ed is obviously considerably better for fun friendly games than tournament play! I think I'll sit back and wait for the rules pack and then decide whether to join in or go 40K again.

8th ed is a very good freindly game yes, and your right I don't think it translates as well to tournaments as 7th did.

Though there will always be differences of opinion about tournament rules, just most of the time you don't get an input into them, you just look at the rulepack and decide whether to go or not

Russ

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::importPlugin() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/viewtopic.php on line 598

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 92

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 501

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 67

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 73

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFactory::getDBO() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 24

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 26

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::getPlugin() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 39

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 41

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRegistryFormat::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/registry.php on line 373

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::clean() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/format.php on line 45

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 42

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 43

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Nethrag wrote:
Gnoblars are just as bad as slaves and goblins can get pretty close. Also mainstay wasn't model for model it was unit for unit.

Neither of those are anywhere near as reliable as the slaves though. And yeah I know mainstay was unit for unit but just use it model for model or wound for wound if you wanted to extend it to gnoblars too :p

Another aternative (but again slave focused) is to play the banner mission more than once but that doesn't do a lot to limit one or two very big units since the troops are so cheap.

Not keen on a unit size cap though. At least not one of 30 as I think that removes the horde rule from the game too.

Nethrag

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::importPlugin() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/viewtopic.php on line 598

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 92

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 501

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 67

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 73

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFactory::getDBO() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 24

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 26

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::getPlugin() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 39

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 41

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRegistryFormat::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/registry.php on line 373

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::clean() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/format.php on line 45

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 42

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 43

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Neither of those are anywhere near as reliable as the slaves though

Gnoblars and goblins are Ld9 with a reroll instead of the slaves Ld 10 with a reroll? You really think that's no where near as reliable?!

Another aternative (but again slave focused) is to play the banner mission more than once but that doesn't do a lot to limit one or two very big units since the troops are so cheap.

I'm confused here - you say why your suggestion doesn't work in your own post?

Not keen on a unit size cap though. At least not one of 30 as I think that removes the horde rule from the game too.

1) You only need 30 troops to horde and
2) cheap troops have a cap of 40.

----------------------------------------------

I'll be writing up the latest version this weekend I imagine, will post when I've done it but I imagine only slight changes from that point as Neil wants the rules pack!

Grotsmeg

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::importPlugin() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/viewtopic.php on line 598

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 92

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 501

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 67

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 73

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFactory::getDBO() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 24

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 26

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::getPlugin() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 39

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 41

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRegistryFormat::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/registry.php on line 373

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::clean() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/format.php on line 45

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 42

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 43

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

lol how about we just make hordes do ld checks on 3d6

Nethrag

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::importPlugin() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/viewtopic.php on line 598

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 92

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 501

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 67

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 73

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFactory::getDBO() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 24

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 26

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::getPlugin() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 39

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 41

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRegistryFormat::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/registry.php on line 373

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::clean() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/format.php on line 45

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 42

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 43

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

because the problem isn't hordes, its steadfast lol

blessed knight

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::importPlugin() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/viewtopic.php on line 598

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 92

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 501

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 67

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 73

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFactory::getDBO() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 24

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 26

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::getPlugin() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 39

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 41

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRegistryFormat::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/registry.php on line 373

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::clean() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/format.php on line 45

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 42

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 43

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Nethrag wrote:
because the problem isn't hordes, its steadfast lol

even with the unmodified leadership as per the steadfast rules?

Slaves testing on approx ld4-5 out of inspiring presence range?

do they get to add ranks to steadfast (as its a modification)?

Warning: date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/include/functions.php on line 621

Warning: date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/include/functions.php on line 622

Warning: date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/include/functions.php on line 623

Warning: date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/include/functions.php on line 629

Last edited by blessed knight (2011-02-09 00:45:23)

Russ

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::importPlugin() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/viewtopic.php on line 598

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 92

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 501

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 67

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 73

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFactory::getDBO() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 24

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 26

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::getPlugin() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 39

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 41

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRegistryFormat::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/registry.php on line 373

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::clean() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/format.php on line 45

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 42

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 43

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Nethrag wrote:
Gnoblars and goblins are Ld9 with a reroll instead of the slaves Ld 10 with a reroll? You really think that's no where near as reliable?!

It's not even a straight comparison. I don't have the Ogre book so I won't mention gnoblars but it's not as if goblins don't have a load of other disadvantages that skaven don't. They're slower, they have animosity. The skaven can get an 18" inspiring presence that works better with the army than an orc on a wyvern. The goblins are more expensive. Being pinned by goblins for several turns isn't as much of an issue as it is with skaven as i'd much rather be hit by a giant in a flank than an abomination as well as a unit in combat with slaves can still be shot at with no penalty to the skaven unless it's a template that happens to scatter. All of which makes up just a bit more of a difference than one point of leadership and a couple of fanatics possibly.

I'm confused here - you say why your suggestion doesn't work in your own post?

Because one or two massive units of slaves doesn't worry me anywhere near as much as 4 or 5 of them.

1) You only need 30 troops to horde and
2) cheap troops have a cap of 40.

The bare minimum for ranks is always a good thing isn't it. In that situation any unit gets one round of combat before it reforms to 5 wide or loses it's steadfast. Why risk it at all with what are crap troops you lose loads of? As I said it guts the horde rule as well specifically for the troops it's meant for and as you say yourself steadfast is the problem not them being a horde. If anything a massive nerf to being steadfast means they need to be a horde even more.

Nethrag

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::importPlugin() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/viewtopic.php on line 598

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 92

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 501

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 67

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 73

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFactory::getDBO() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 24

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 26

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::getPlugin() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 39

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 41

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRegistryFormat::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/registry.php on line 373

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::clean() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/format.php on line 45

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 42

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 43

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Russ, I responded to the point you made which was

Neither of those are anywhere near as reliable as the slaves though

This point is clearly wrong.

If you want to then come up with other reasons fine, but don't try and pretend it's the same point you originally made.

This reply

because the problem isn't hordes, its steadfast lol

is to this question

lol how about we just make hordes do ld checks on 3d6

and is more poking fun at richards typing error than a real point.

Russ

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::importPlugin() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/viewtopic.php on line 598

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 92

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 501

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 67

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 73

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFactory::getDBO() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 24

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 26

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::getPlugin() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 39

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 41

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRegistryFormat::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/registry.php on line 373

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::clean() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/format.php on line 45

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 42

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 43

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Nethrag wrote:
Russ, I responded to the point you made which was

Neither of those are anywhere near as reliable as the slaves though
This point is clearly wrong.

If you want to then come up with other reasons fine, but don't try and pretend it's the same point you originally made.

No actually the point was that I think it's a particular problem with slaves more than anything else. I said:

Are there really any other units as bad as skaven slaves when it comes to a combination of points cost and Ld for steadfast?

But then going back a page might be too much to ask. You were the one that introduced Ld as the sole deciding factor not me. Don't worry about it though, I wasn't expecting to end up in a fight over a simple suggestion so I won't bother.

Benthomas

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::importPlugin() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/viewtopic.php on line 598

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 92

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 501

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 67

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 73

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFactory::getDBO() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 24

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 26

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::getPlugin() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 39

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 41

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRegistryFormat::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/registry.php on line 373

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::clean() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/format.php on line 45

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 42

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 43

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

The reason that it is a bigger problem with slaves is because of the shooting issue. Being able to tie people up with a big Steadfast unit and then still shoot seven shades out of them is pretty brutal

Grotsmeg

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::importPlugin() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/viewtopic.php on line 598

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 92

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 501

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 67

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 73

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFactory::getDBO() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 24

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 26

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::getPlugin() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 39

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 41

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRegistryFormat::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/registry.php on line 373

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::clean() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/format.php on line 45

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 42

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 43

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Hey it wasn't a typo it was a deliberate piss take!
It was an effort to make amusement that sometimes in order to fix one
Problem another is inadvertantly made. Slaves wouldn't be such a big issue if you didn't have 5 wide units that are, for example 10 deep,
I still think the problem is to limit the depth of units so they lose stedfast in a way more suited to how we want to play.
We might not want to change the rules buy maybe we have to

Nethrag

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::importPlugin() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/viewtopic.php on line 598

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 92

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 501

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 67

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 73

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFactory::getDBO() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 24

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 26

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::getPlugin() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 39

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 41

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRegistryFormat::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/registry.php on line 373

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::clean() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/format.php on line 45

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 42

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 43

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Are there really any other units as bad as skaven slaves when it comes to a combination of points cost and Ld for steadfast?

You were the one that introduced Ld as the sole deciding factor not me.

really.

Let me be more clear then, when it comes to a combination of points cost and leadership for steadfast I think gnoblars are just as bad as slaves, and goblins are close.

I agree that the fact you can shoot into steadfast slaves is nasty - I'm yet to be convinced that capping them at 40 isn't enough.

I also agree that I'd like a way to limit steadfast without overly limiting horde and without opening up deathstar options. Which leads me on to...

Rich - I'd been thinking about your suggestion and liking it more and more.

However I then thought of a potential problem. The combat reform. This can be used to lower the number of models in your front rank as you lose models to keep your ranks up above the enemys thereby keeping steadfast for almost as long as the normal rules allow. The combat reform doesn't let you remove models from base to base though so it is possible for the attacker to "pin" the slave unit in a wide formation and get through it however so may not be as big an issue as I'm imagining.

The major downside is that this feels like (to me anyway) a reasonably large core rule change.

Lee, I held off answering your point until I had my rule book infront of me - P54 bottom right hand paragraph, says you can use inspiring prescence for steadfast. Now - if anyone knows that the GW FAQ on "unmodified leadership" trumps this then I agree we dont really have a problem. However I don't think it does.

Hey it wasn't a typo it was a deliberate piss take!

I am yet to 'get' one of your online jokes rich lol

Warning: date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/include/functions.php on line 621

Warning: date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/include/functions.php on line 622

Warning: date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/include/functions.php on line 623

Warning: date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/include/functions.php on line 629

Last edited by Nethrag (2011-02-08 18:21:55)

Russ

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::importPlugin() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/viewtopic.php on line 598

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 92

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 501

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 67

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 73

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFactory::getDBO() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 24

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 26

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::getPlugin() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 39

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 41

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRegistryFormat::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/registry.php on line 373

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::clean() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/format.php on line 45

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 42

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 43

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Nethrag wrote:
really.

Let me be more clear then, when it comes to a combination of points cost and leadership for steadfast I think gnoblars are just as bad as slaves, and goblins are close.

Oh shush, i'm grumpy cos i've got a cold and haven't had any sleep

What about allow steadfast units to use the inspiring presence but don't allow it for the stubborn bit so a unit of slaves might start off at Ld10 but wouldn't go down below Ld5. Chances are they'll still fail the test but it doesn't gut them entirely if they really haven't lost the combat by a lot.

(it's possible someone already mentioned this but again i'll use having a cold as an excuse )

Ironbark

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::importPlugin() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/viewtopic.php on line 598

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 92

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 501

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 67

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 73

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFactory::getDBO() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 24

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 26

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::getPlugin() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 39

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 41

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRegistryFormat::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/registry.php on line 373

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::clean() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/format.php on line 45

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 42

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 43

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

I fear that this discussion is leading to exactly what the majority have voted against i.e. drastically altering the rules of 8th ed. There are a number rules changes I personally would like to see as in my post on page 1, however my first concern is that we dont put of the majority of the group off with an abundance of unwelcome changes to the core rules.

To that end I think that Johnny is pretty much spot on with the comp he has suggested as it strikes quite a nice balance between unit sizes and the use of uber death horde killing spells. Skaven slaves are a problem and I dont really see a way round that short of an out right restriction on the maximum size of that particular unit.

Skaven are almost the Daemons of 8th Ed so I think the same approach we took with Daemons is in order:- Timmy comp the shit out of it and sneer at the player on the day

Warning: date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/include/functions.php on line 621

Warning: date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/include/functions.php on line 622

Warning: date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/include/functions.php on line 623

Warning: date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/include/functions.php on line 629

Last edited by Ironbark (2011-02-08 21:19:32)

Bendi

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::importPlugin() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/viewtopic.php on line 598

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 92

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 501

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 67

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 73

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFactory::getDBO() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 24

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 26

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::getPlugin() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 39

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 41

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRegistryFormat::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/registry.php on line 373

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::clean() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/format.php on line 45

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 42

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 43

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Nethrag wrote:
8th ed is a very good freindly game yes, and your right I don't think it translates as well to tournaments as 7th did.

Eh?

I'm just failing in every conceivable way to see the problem with 8th... I'm having far more fun with 8th at tournements (AGOM, which only limits special characters and the Showdowns & Conflict in Stockport that are a free for all)
I shoot everything, make things go BOOM and the girls continue to kick the crap out of all they come across (well... Mostly)

skcuzzlebumm

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::importPlugin() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/viewtopic.php on line 598

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 92

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 501

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 67

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 73

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFactory::getDBO() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 24

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 26

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::getPlugin() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 39

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 41

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRegistryFormat::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/registry.php on line 373

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::clean() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/format.php on line 45

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 42

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 43

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Ironbark wrote:
I fear that this discussion is leading to exactly what the majority have voted against i.e. drastically altering the rules of 8th ed. There are a number rules changes I personally would like to see as in my post on page 1, however my first concern is that we dont put of the majority of the group off with an abundance of unwelcome changes to the core rules.

Agreed with Adam and I have to say though I don't know WFB inside out as much as others lets try to keep the changes simple, like those Mike suggested, rather than creating WFB 8.5. This is also the sentiment that was voiced to me by a number of past BotC WFB players at Vapnartak this weekend when they came over to chat with me about BotC in general.

zelophahad

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::importPlugin() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/viewtopic.php on line 598

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 92

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 501

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 67

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 73

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFactory::getDBO() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 24

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 26

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::getPlugin() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 39

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 41

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRegistryFormat::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/registry.php on line 373

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::clean() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/format.php on line 45

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 42

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 43

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

I'm definitely with Adam and Neil here. Please let's keep it simple and comp-focused to avoid major in-game rule changes. And if huge units of skaven slaves are a problem why not just reject them when people submit their lists (is that what 'timmy comping' is?)?

Nethrag

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::importPlugin() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/viewtopic.php on line 598

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 92

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 501

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 67

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 73

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFactory::getDBO() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 24

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 26

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::getPlugin() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 39

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 41

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRegistryFormat::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/registry.php on line 373

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::clean() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/format.php on line 45

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 42

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 43

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Right - thanks for all the input guys.

With the last round of reminders in I think that'll do for now - I'll get the rule pack up asap and then we can see what we think. It may have to just be timmy comp slaves and gnoblars.......never thought I'd say THAT this time last year! lol (yes phil that's what it means)

Grotsmeg

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::importPlugin() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/viewtopic.php on line 598

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 92

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_import() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 97

Strict Standards: Non-static method JDispatcher::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/application/application.php on line 501

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 67

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/emailcloak.php on line 73

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFactory::getDBO() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 24

Strict Standards: Non-static method JString::strpos() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/loadmodule.php on line 26

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::getPlugin() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 39

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::_load() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/plugin/helper.php on line 41

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRegistryFormat::getInstance() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/registry.php on line 373

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::clean() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/registry/format.php on line 45

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 42

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getBool() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/plugins/content/pagebreak.php on line 43

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::getVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 217

Strict Standards: Non-static method JRequest::_cleanVar() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 151

Strict Standards: Non-static method JFilterInput::getInstance() should not be called statically in /data04/aroberts/public_html/libraries/joomla/environment/request.php on line 577

After last night i can definately say gnoblars rock, but it was nothing to do with steadfast.
However I think we have had some really good discussions on this thread, so i think none of it is wasted as i do believe we are all coming from the same point, we just want to have a good fun game that doesnt leave a bad taste in your mouth. I do think 8th is a good version, but it has some flaws that we all think 'why the threp did they do it that way! and with a couple of minor changes could have been avoided.

Flame On Forum

Poll

Re: BotCH wfb

Re: BotCH wfb

Re: BotCH wfb

Nethrag wrote:

Re: BotCH wfb

Re: BotCH wfb

Re: BotCH wfb

Re: BotCH wfb

Nethrag wrote:

Re: BotCH wfb

Nethrag wrote:

Re: BotCH wfb

Re: BotCH wfb

Nethrag wrote:

Re: BotCH wfb

Re: BotCH wfb

Re: BotCH wfb

Re: BotCH wfb

Nethrag wrote:

Re: BotCH wfb

Re: BotCH wfb

Nethrag wrote:

Re: BotCH wfb

Ironbark wrote:

Sorry. You have to be registered to access this content.

Re: BotCH wfb

Re: BotCH wfb

Re: BotCH wfb

Forum Tools

Board information