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jimmy

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Now Britcon is out of the way, time to look at Childsplay - 1750pt Heavy tank company from RoH

HQ King Tiger 350

King Tiger 345
King Tiger 345

7 team panzerpioneers with faust and goliath 235
3 Nebs - 125
3 Stugs - 285
1 Flak 88 - 65

1750pts - 6 platoons

jimmy

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I used the King Tigers with Nebs, pioneers and 88 tonight - came up against pretty much my worst nightmare - Russian Sapper Engineers with a shedload of artillery - he had a full God of War and a full battery of big guns, along with 2 large pioneer engineer teams bristling with panzerfausts.

First game I was defending Break-through - that didn't end well, especially as in his first turn he killed my C&C KT with an arty shot - a lack of reserves (didn't turn up till turn 4) left me a bit stuck.

Second game was a Free-for-all against the same army, did a bit better - the KT's took long range shots at the arty - although I concentrated on the God of War instead of the big guns which was a mistake, pioneers just about held off a platoon of enemy infantry, the stugs almost got to the objective, before getting artilleried.

List-wise it seemed ok, the 88 was a bit pointless, and the nebs died easy, I may try swapping out the nebs and 88 for some panzerwerfers - although that'd bring me down to 5 platoons.

pioneer was good, with the goliath giving them some good firepower against attacking infantry (killed 6 teams in the 2nd game)

Gonna ponder a bit more.

anathema

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I did wonder why you were going for the GoW and not the big guns, but didn't want to backseat game. You were also playing on a wide open board which was never going to help you. With even a bit of terrain you'd have been able to get Concealed to range in on the KTs or StuGs which would help reduce the effectiveness of the arty. You'd never play on a LW board like that at a tourney.

That sort of thing is why the BF terrain generator is a bit crap if used on its own, I've started using it as a framework then adding extra stuff as a theme develops down at MAWS now, but it seems like a lot of guys down there don't mind the wide open spaces.

With Panzerwerfers it seems worthwhile to always get the extra crew for the double-width template. They only cost 15 points apparently. You do need 6 platoons though, maybe another 3 nebs and a cheeky AA platoon would fit?

Ade

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I really need to sort out my list for TS I have started painting models but have no idea what actual list I am going to be fielding yet.

jimmy

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Heh - I've asked the organiser if he's got a info pack for this - I'm basing my list on a defending type list - but really have no idea

I was going for the GoW as it was the only thing my stugs could see on the left flank, and I was trying to get them to break - they also weren't dug in, but it would have made no difference - I should really have been going for the big ones.

Yeah - it was a bit open - I have noticed that some of the Maws guys like the open table look - I think the best plan is to get there early and set the table up before they get there

I'll have tonnes to paint - I think the final list will probably just end up as being the cheapest/quickest to paint.

Someone on the FoW forum suggested this:

1 HQ Konigstiger (Henschel) - 350 pts
1 Konigstiger (Henschel) - 345 pts
1 Konigstiger (Henschel) - 345 pts
Schwere Panzer Anti-aircraft Platoon (2 Anti-aircraft Sections) - 90 pts
Assault Gun Platoon (upgrading both StuG G to StuH42) - 200 pts
Panzergrenadier Platoon (upgrade command to Panzerfaust SMG) - 215 pts
Armoured Rocket Launcher Battery (loading crew for the launchers) - 195 pts

which doesn't seem too bad - the StuH42 - are stugs with 2+firepower but only AT11 which are pretty good at getting dug in infantry out - i'd prefer a bit of recon though - I could swap out the panzergrenadiers for pioneers with a goliath, or drop the stugs for recon:

1 HQ King Tiger - 350
1 King Tiger - 345
1 King Tiger - 345
4 team Schwere Panzer Scouts with Faust - 170
7 team Panzerpioneers with Faust and Goliath - 235
3 Panzerwerfer 42 with extra crew - 195
2 armoured Sd Kfz 7/1 (Quad 2cm) - 110

Dunno if I need the stugs, or if my KT are enough AT

anathema

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I'd be more than happy with only 6 AT shots coming my way (assuming you don't roll 3 shots for each of them), best case on average you'll hit with 4, kill 2 and a bit tanks. Only losing 2 tanks is a good turn for me.

I think for this event you have to look at what opponents you'll be facing. For Russians I reckon this is going to be either infantry in the form of Udarny or Sappers, Tankovy in standard/Guards form or heavy Guards Tankovy/Assault gun companies. Basically can you take on horde infantry with loads of flamethrowers, 20-odd medium tanks or 10 and IS-2/ISUs? Also in most cases your opponents tankovy will be attacking you.

jimmy

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exactly - unfortunatly, it's an either/or situation

if I go with stugs/KTs/pioneers i'm sure to come up against infantry, if I take mg teams and no stugs I'll come up against tanks

If they're gonna be attacking - do I really need recon? - it's main purpose is to avoid ambushes and lift G-t-G - both of which shouldn't* be happening if I'm being attacked. - smoke is always handy for smoking the big assault guns

Ade

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Speaking purely from the perspective of my US rifles I would be more than happy to butcher your KT list, I don't think you have the numbers or the fire-power to be able to give me a headache in any mission.

jimmy

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yeah, it is lacking in numbers

Added 08.25.2009 11:35:04:
There's no way i'd take it in anything less than 1750, and even then it's pushing it.

anathema

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Yes, a KT list isn't great in general, but its a bit of a giggle. You need recon in case you have to attack dug-in infantry, but I'm not sure how many Bagration lists use the Defensive battle rules. I know even motostrelk and Rota Razvedki always attack from my book. Might be worth listing all the possible variations and seeing what they do.

From H&S:

Soviets (always attack)

Rota Razvedki (recon, half-track mounted infantry and support)
Motostrelkovy (infantry with support)
Guards Tankovy (FT big platoons of pure T-34/85s)
Tankovy (2-3 CT platoons of T-34s)
Foreign Tankovy (Shermans plus support, possibly M10s)

Germans:

Sperrverband (RT infantry)
Ersatz Pioneers (CT pioneerkompanie)
Schwere Panzers (Tigers!)

jimmy

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River of Heroes:

Russians:

Engineer Sappers (Always Attack) - FT - Pioneer/SMG teams - Infantry Company
Self-Propelled Artillery Regiment - FT - Heavy Assault Guns - Tank Company
Tankovy - CT - Stacks of T34/85s and support infantry

Germans:

Heavy Tanks - CV - King Tigers
Wiking SS Tanks - FV or FT - mixed company, tanks and infantry

Added 08.25.2009 13:00:54:
Stalins Onslaught:

Russians:

Tankovy - FT - IS2s and more IS2s (No Hen and Chicks)
Strek - FT - Rifle/MG teams & support

Germans:

Sturmkompanie - CV Infantry, with fortifications
Stug Battery - CV Tanks - well Stugs, with special tank-riders

Ade

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Stalins Onslaght:

Russians:
8th Otdyelnaya Shtrafnoy Batalon (inf FT Penal battalion "Fictional list")
Heavy Tank Company (IS2)
Udarny Stelkovy (infantry Fearless trained)

Germans:
Sturm companie (allways defend if spend 50+ pts on defences)
Stug Companie.

Added 08.25.2009 13:21:48:
ahh kinda sniped

jimmy

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Heh - so not actually that many 'always attack' lists - thought there were more than that

Soviet Intelligence

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If i may butt in and give you my tuppence worth....

It sounds like you definately want to use a KT list (less painting if nothing else) however lets be honest unless you come against a tankovy, heavy tankovy/assault gun list your KT's will not be able to put out enough anti infantry firepower to stop a soviet infantry list. This is especially true as both the Bagration Infantry lists have rules that effectivley always make them attacker.

If it was me, i would look at worst case scenario, i.e your using a tank company, your defending against infantry and half your units start in reserve.

You need at least 6 platoons as you have said, you need 4 things to support a tank company, 3 which are critical one you could probably do without. 1) Infantry 2) Art 3) AA 4) Recon (could get away without)

1) Infantry. As you have said Pioneers are the way to go, i hav'nt seen many Goliaths for a while (due to the fact there probably the most unbalanced thing in the game), but hey for 30 points....

2) With arty you are looking for smoke and pinning, and as a secondary purpose picking off the odd dug in infantry stand. My preference is for Panzer Newfers. Cheap and unlike 105's you can get away with not having them start on the board if needs be (rare that art wouldnt start but still) Also in my experience 3 Newf's are horribly vulnerable to counter art fire (and as a result ending up being constantly pinned) due to the smoke trails.

3) AA. cheap as possible and there to get you up to 6 platoons. Expect a lot of planes (cant be arsed painting, spent 250 points on arir support)

4) to be honest i dont think Recon is much use to your list,

From my perspective if i am up againts a KT list i obviously want to ignore the KT's and hammer everything else, thats why i would be happy if you took Stugs. My AT has no chance against KT so STUGS merely give all the T 85'S and Assault guns a target. Likewise recon will get a disproportionate amount of fire chucked at it, as there will be so few viable targets in the rest of the list. Plus if you take Stugs what the point of the KT's? if you need Stugs for anti armour why spend over a thousand points on KTs?

Sorry I am well aware i am rambling on but, basically you cant do a balanced KT list, if you come up against an infantry list where you are defending, you will struggle. If your opponent doesnt take lots of armour or ISU, IS1 then your KT'S will be slowly knocking out 4 mg shots before being swept off the objective.

Its also my understanding that a lot of the missions at Childs Play will possible be some of the new missions from the Battlefront Website, or at least Chris mentioned at Toy Soldier (all be it under the influence) that he was thinking of doing that.

In your favour most of the Soviet players will actually be German players trying to make up the numbers. On a side note thats why a lot of people dont like late war tourneys, as its not as balanced as mid war, and inevitably given the choice 75% of people would take Germans as late war they are, in general, more competative than the allies. Of course a lot of people also dont like it when Chris wont let them use the Bagration Cossack list, but hey at least Childsplay should be more balanced than the usual lists which inevitably up at every single late was tourney.

anathema

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Its also my understanding that a lot of the missions at Childs Play will possible be some of the new missions from the Battlefront Website, or at least Chris mentioned at Toy Soldier (all be it under the influence) that he was thinking of doing that.

at least Childsplay should be more balanced than the usual lists which inevitably up at every single late was tourney.

One thing I've noticed is that the Bagration German lists seem to be less jack-of-all-trades than your standard FE lists and more themed, whereas a fair few of the Soviet lists seem to be a bit better or simply more flexible. This may make the games a bit more interesting if nothing else as German players will have to play to their theme and strengths in a different way and I for one am looking forward to coming up against something that isn't bristling with Panthers. Throw in special missions and I'm really looking forward to it.

jimmy

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yeah - I think i'll just step pack from power-gaming and just go for something fun

Added 08.25.2009 15:00:40:
5 King Tigers it is! - gives me 20pts left for a Bergepanther

anathema

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*facepalm*

Ade

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NO JIMMY! BAD JIMMY!

Can I get a new partner for Childsplay please?

jimmy

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gets ready to make an order from Maelstrom

Soviet Intelligence

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5 King Tigers is just broken........In the sense that it doesnt work. On behalf of the the Soviet players at Childsplay, go on...go on. go on.

jimmy

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Heh - Nah, even I'm not gonna be that bad

I'll just go for a nice rounded force - I think the panzerwerfers are gonna be my best bet - i'll have another play around with points and stuff

Ade

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anathema wrote:
One thing I've noticed is that the Bagration German lists seem to be less jack-of-all-trades than your standard FE lists and more themed,

I am having a lot of trouble deciding what force I am going to field and what components it is going to need.

Soviet Intelligence

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@ANATHEMA, Yeah thats why Chris has done it, the idea is that it retains the friendly spirit of the Gimps Campaign weekends which have run for the last 3 years (and which sell out in about 5 minutes). The only reason Childsplay is in Sheffield is that we had the hall booked and Chris and the Bath boys always come up, so it seemed to make sense.

On a related note i think a lot of people get a bit fed up of late war tourneys, i feel that is a factor with the FOW GT being cancelled after only 10 people signed up. Obviously location, same time as colours doesnt help, but Childsplay effectivlwy sold out in about 4 days and has people travelling from Bath, South Wales etc as they know they wont spend the entire weekend playing the same missions against the same armies i.e Germans with loads of Stugs and pioneers or Brits with church crocodiles, M10 17 Pounders, 8 25 pounders etc.

@ADE, thats it in a nutshell, if you were picking lists from FE you could effectively have whatever you wanted, with sod all restrictions, but ineveiatbly this leads to everyone picking the same lists. I swear i have played against more Brumbars than the Germans even built in the first place.....

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Last edited by Soviet Intelligence (2009-08-26 14:54:19)

anathema

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Are you going Sturmkompanie Ade?

Ade

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I have no idea what makes a typical LW army as have only played about 8 games LW (6 at Britcon) going to be building my army from scratch, based on my experiences so far I prefer LW to MW but that could be just down to my army not working that well in Late (or that in general for my Yanks more or less everything in LW is also in MW but cheaper so I get more toys to play with)

I just cannot seem to build an army using the Bagatrion books that I am happy with and ticks enough boxes (the major thing I seem to be missing is mobility)

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