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stillfrosty

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For the past nine months I have been on a biker binge filled with excess amounts of outflanking, melta guns, land speeder typhoons, and biker chicks, but I have recently began entertaining the idea of busting out my other armies, and tau is the first one that came up without a lot of work to get moving again. So my plan is to design a 1750 point army and to take to a highly competitive tournament.

So here is my current list ideas...

Shas'el
Cyclonic Ion Blaster, Plasma Rifle, Targeting Array, Hard Wired Multi-Tracker, Hard Wired Drone Controller, 2x Shield Drones, Bonding Knife --135

Bodyguard (2 man)
2x plasma rifles, 2x fusion blasters, 2x targeting array, 2x hard wired drone controller, 1x hard wired drone controller, 2x shield drone, 2x hard wired target locks --234

Shas'el
Twin Linked Missile Pod, Airbursting Fragmentation Projector, Hard Wired Multi-tracker, bonding knife --98

Crisis Suits (3 man)
3x twin linked missile pod, 3x flamer --141

Crisis Suits (2 man)
2x plasma rifles, 2x missile pods, 1x multi-tracker, Team leader with targeting array, hard wired multi-tracker, bonding knife, hard wired drone controller, 2x shield drones --174

Crisis Suits (2 man)
2x plasma rifles, 2x missile pods, 1x multi-tracker, Team leader with targeting array, hard wired multi-tracker, bonding knife, hard wired drone controller, 2x shield drones --174

Fire Warriors (6 man)
Devilfish Smart Missile System, Targeting Array, Disruption pod, Multi-tracker --180

Kroot (10 man)
10x Kroot Hounds --130

Kroot (10 man)
10x Kroot Hounds --130

Kroot (12 man)
10x Kroot Hounds --144

Broad Sides (2 man)
2x Advanced Stabilization Systems, Team Leader, hard wired target lock, bonding knife, hard wired, drone controller, 2x shield drones --205

Total 1749

Gonefishing

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There is some debate about wether Tau Drones count towards the 50% loss for regrouping (The Codex says for Victory Points only) - So I would Check with the TO's on that one - could save yourself some money on Bonding Knives.

I think you need to hybridise the list a bit - Battlesuits are no longer as good as they used to be in 4th, dont get me wrong - still great, but you cant rely on building an army around them anymore. I would also question if you need the 2 HQ's and the Bodyguards - 1 HQ attached to a normal Crisis Unit would probablly be enough (Tau HQ's are just very slightly upgraded suits after all).

You dont have enough Heavy Support, and you dont have enough weaponry to deal with Hordes, and Anti Armour wise you will also be struggling. - I would drop the Body Guards and 2nd HQ, cut the list around, change the Crisis Configs, Drop the 3Rd Kroot Unit and Unpimp the Fire Warriors ride (Disruption Pod Only)and check if the bonding knives are needed - Squeeze a couple of Hammerheads in and spend whatevers left on Piranhas.

You have a list thats good against MEQ/TEQ Troops, but is going to struggle against Horde/Dark Eldar/Eldar /Mech /Imperial Guard. A gunline will shred you and you dont have enough long range fire to take it on.

commie bob

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time for good debate.

i'm pretty sure that for all purposes hammerheads are garbage from now until the new book or 6th ed, they are well over pointed and broadsides do a better job.

right t the list.

so the CIB commander is pretty balls just because CIB doesn't but it anymore.

the list can fuction well with just the AFP shas'el leading a unit of suits.

so you could look at for 1750pts

AFP commander + 2 drones

3 Deathrains, 1 with flamer + 2 drones

2 fireknives + 2 drones

2 fireknives + 2 drones

2 broadsides [ASS] + 2 drones

2 broadsides {TA} + 2 drones

2 fish of fury units [6 men]

2 x 10 kroot

not sure how many pts were talking cause im a bit hammered, but suits still control the shooting phase, having one reliable static and 1 manourverable unit of railguns allows up to 4 different targets for pure AT. suits are still the workhorses.

Gonefishing

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Debate on! lol

They are both very different units - Hammerheads are great Anti Infantry (Submuntion and Burst up close), which are also good against Mech thanks to the S10 solid shot. Broadsides are great Anti Mech -Thanks to the TL solid shot, but have limited anti infantry options (just the SMS) - The Hammerheads work really well when you back them up with a lot of Deathrains, as the Deathrains take on the Light to medium Armour and the Hammerheads can take on the Monoliths/Land Raiders etc as needed and concentrate on the Infantry. They are also alot better at looking after themselves than the Broadsides, the Hammerhead can keep moving and firing relatively indepentdantly while the Broadsides are mostly static apart from the A.S.S and you have to look after them. - Effectively they are both very different units with very different uses - apart from the fact they both have rail guns.

Dont get me wrong, im not knocking Broadsides - they are good too, and there is nothing wrong with a Broadside / Hammerhead combination - But overall I prefer the Hammerhead in an all comers list - its more versatile. Cost wise they should never come to more than 165 points - Hammerhead / Rail and Burst/ Disruption Pod/Multi Tracker - Job Done. And yes, thats still expensive, but I dont think its drasically overpriced for an AV13 vehicle with a Permanent 4+ save (outside 12"), a 72" Range S10 AP1 Gun that can also Fire a S6 AP4 Large Blast, and can Fire as a Fast Vehicle.

Suits are still great, and very much a workhorse - But you cant really build an army around them nowdays like you used to in 4th (Unless your running Farsight and the Seven Samurai).

I would be looking more along the lines of:

HQ - El' with TL MP and TL - HW DC and 2 Gun Drones (93Pts)

Elite - 3 Crisis - TLMP, TA - 159 Pts (Commander Attached)
3 Crisis - TL Flamer, Missile Pods - 129 Points (Good to deepstrike by low armour Units or can add Missiles to the mix if Needed)
3 Crisis, MP, Plasma, MT - 189 Pts - Missiles again and back up plasma when needed for TEQ's / MEQ's.

Troops - 1 Unit of 6 FWs / Fish/ Disruption Pod - 145 Pts. (in reserve at start)
10 x Kroot 10 x Hounds - Outflankers or Bubble Wrap if needed 130 Pts
10 x Kroot 10 X Hounds - Outflankers or Bubblewrap if needed 130 pts

Heavy - 2 Broadsides, 1 TL with HWTL and 2 x Shield Drones - A.S.S - 195 Points
2 x Hammerhead - Rail Burst and Dp, Mt - 330 Pts.

Thats 1500 Pts Core - with 250 Points left to spend as you see fit - I would go:

3 Piranha's with Fusion/DP/Flechettes - 240 Pts for a mobile Skimmer Wall / Objective contester (Think Piranha's are one of the best things you can take nowdays).

1740 Pts - with 10 Pts left over to bung on something

mike

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Personally I much prefer broadsides. Everytime i've used hammerheads they have been crap. With the current meta game of mass las razorbacks, missile spam SW an BT, rifle and psirifle man dreads etc Hammerheads become too much of a liability - never getting to shoot, which cancels out any of their good points. Give me Broadsides with their 2+ save, wound allocation (inc shield drones) and extra rail gun shot - which, in tournaments is all it really comes down to as mech is prevalent.

Also found Bsides dont generally need ASS - as its not often they can't see their target with true line of shit in 5th.

Likewise you need shield drones everywhere, theres too many lascannons, missle, melta to ignore. coupled with mass shooting from hydras/riflemen etc without your gonna lose all your suits QUICK

Generally I find Piranhas to be dog shit. Amour 11 10 10, opentopped, just doesnt cut it nower days, they just fall out of the sky. Even worse when they are a squadron an you kill them on a 3+. Couple with a weapon with an effective 6" range (as you generally always want to be within melta range) not for me thanks.

However the ethereal has proved more than useful. I normaly run him with a gun drone or two, and sit him in a broadisde unit. He rarely dies, fearless Broadisdes an rerolling moral (the tau weakspot) has proved fantastic, and he always makes his points back! - (have also hidden him in 2+ cover save kroot when needed)

Kroot need to be BIG to be any use as a combat unit. Counterchrage wolves, and FNP blood angels, daemons etc have really raised the game - and generally with small units its better to shoot than charge!

re: your list

I would drop the CIB commander and reduce the unit of 22 kroot to a 10 - for objective grabbing.

This gives you 209 pts

Team leader and 2 shields on the deathrains - 35
A third fire knife in both the other suit units - 62 each - 124
50pts spare - ethereal?

would also consider dropping the two bodyguards for another broadside unit and some shields for the AFP commander.

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Last edited by mike (2011-07-17 11:24:11)

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Different strokes for different folks I suppose!

There is no way on earth I would let an Ethereal anywhere near one of my lists - to much of a target and too detrimental to the rest of the list when he dies, he also does not sit well with the units I play - I prefer to manoeuvre with no static elements to the list (apart from maybe the Kroot, but I use them as mostly as Outflanking attackers or Bubble wrap for other units depending on what type of list I'm playing against).

Then again, I have lost count of how many games Piranha's have won me - the Front Armour 11 makes them invulnerable to most small arms fire and they don’t get targeted regularly by the heavier anti tank weapons as they are seen as less of a threat then the Hammerheads/suits and they take more work to destroy. I find the Squadrons work best contesting objectives, as they have an effective 27" range for contestation moves and hold them in reserve at the beginning of the game to give me a chance to thin down my opponents long range fire. With Skimmer Moving fast and Disruption Pod saves they have a Permanent 4+ save pretty much - and your opponent always needs 6's to hit them in CC if you work the movement right (and they can keep firing). For contesting Objectives and operating as a Mobile wall there is nothing better in the Tau army (especially in Conjunction with Flechette Dischargers, they can wipe whole units out - but that depends on whether the Tournament Organisers have allowed the stacking of Flechettes on squadrons or not). I normally run a Squadron of 4 with Flechettes and DPods, and Fusion - would not be without them.

Hammerheads are more vulnerable to not being able to shoot etc, but that’s the trade off the manoeuvrability and battlefield independence they offer (as well as superior anti infantry) - Broadsides are by far the superior anti mech though, but I find them less versatile and I hate the fact that I have to invest so many points (and other units) into looking after them. I always run them with A.S.S though when I do use them, not so much because of LOS issues but because you can reserve them and walk them on to fire - Or even just back away from danger while still firing.

Still, regarding your list, while all 3 of us have different advice I think all 3 of us agree you need either More Broadsides, or some Hammerheads - 2 Rail guns isn’t going to cut it at 1750 points.

Unlike Stelek and various others I think there are plenty of different ways to play Tau competitively, rather than just the Mono Build Hybrid approach, so whatever suits your play style is the way to go.

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