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hello_dave

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Sorry. You have to be registered to access this content.

Steve54

Strict Standards: Non-static method JPluginHelper::importPlugin() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/viewtopic.php on line 598

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Too many questions for me - lack of track record, no info about where investment will go, no guarantee of a product if they reach the target, that they have spent £50k+ already and are nowhere near completion + that even though they say its a spare time project one of the main costs is salaries

Abyssal Terror

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The scale is off too. Doesn't look right. The back story is completely 40k... I appeciate their attempt but I don't think it will work.

Evil and Chaos

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I'm with Steve. The numbers don't add up, and the details are vague even when they're asked direct questions.

hello_dave

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Yeah doesn't look too likely to ever emerge - I don't really know how you write a game on a sub £100k budget - even fairly modest indie programmers like introversion will spend way more would be better as an open source project. If the code was gpl'd I'd even contribute a bit of time here and there. Don't think the market is really looking for it.

GR00V3R

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Yeah, that GR00V3R guy is too vague and dodgey. When I run the numbers that are shown on the campaign page ($47,000 and 40%) using my incredible actuarial-like skills and insight into games development, it's clear that they don't add up! I mean, if you add $47,000 to 0.40, you get a $47,000.40! Whaaat? Pffft! See? So dodgey.

And GR00V3R won't share Membraine's financials or the project schedule?...MEGA dodgey. I'll bet if I called up 10 private companies and asked to see their project schedules and other financials, they'd give them to me. I mean, what possible reasons could there be for a company to not share finance info?

And the Exodus Wars universe is SUCH a rip-off! Everyone knows GW invented sci-fi! The cheek of Exodus Wars creating their OWN sci-fi universe that ALSO features guys in powered armour like Heinlein's Starship Troopers and large mechs like Battletech!

I can't believe they thought ANYONE would support this project. I wouldn't support them NO MATTER AWESOME IT LOOKS!

Cheers!
GR00V3R

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Last edited by GR00V3R (2012-06-12 03:10:05)

anathema

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You know what? A barely coherent rant posted on a small forum has now convinced me to invest. Well played sir.

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Last edited by anathema (2012-06-12 05:08:35)

Steve54

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GR00V3R wrote:
Yeah, that GR00V3R guy is too vague and dodgey. When I run the numbers that are shown on the campaign page ($47,000 and 40%) using my incredible actuarial-like skills and insight into games development, it's clear that they don't add up! I mean, if you add $47,000 to 0.40, you get a $47,000.40! Whaaat? Pffft! See? So dodgey.

And GR00V3R won't share Membraine's financials or the project schedule?...MEGA dodgey. I'll bet if I called up 10 private companies and asked to see their project schedules and other financials, they'd give them to me. I mean, what possible reasons could there be for a company to not share finance info?

And the Exodus Wars universe is SUCH a rip-off! Everyone knows GW invented sci-fi! The cheek of Exodus Wars creating their OWN sci-fi universe that ALSO features guys in powered armour like Heinlein's Starship Troopers and large mechs like Battletech!

I can't believe they thought ANYONE would support this project. I wouldn't support them NO MATTER AWESOME IT LOOKS!

Cheers!
GR00V3R

Setting doesn't put me off, not very original but then most aren't

Waht does put me off is the vagueness over everything else
- To use your private companies example - I guarantee if 10 private companies were looking for investment they would be happy to give financial details to interested possible investors or even to just answer questions like
- what has the money been spent on so far?
- what will future investment be spent on?
- why are you already taking salaries from a fledgling start up business, most people wait as long as possible before taking money out of a business
- where did the initial funds come from?
- that the numbers look incredibly low to people who know the field
- if you can do it on that figure why have you produced next to nothing on 50% of that figure?
Then you have the lack of trsck record, probable lack of market and unprofessionalism in ranting on internet forums

I'd rather put my money on a horse as at least I can see track records (form) and their is much the same guarantee of getting something back

Evil and Chaos

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Yeah, that GR00V3R guy is too vague and dodgey.

Sorry dude, you must surely know I respect you personally.

However, I've some experience in computer games development, if only from an amateur perspective***.
My games were using some pretty old technology... so I'm not so sure that I couldn't make something similar to your game as shown so far using today's technology with a budget of zero (I wouldn't be paying myself anything).

I asked on TC whether you'd licenced an Engine (we used a GPL Engine on our old RTS games so costs are zero as long as you distribute the engine source code along with your game), I wanted to know what had eaten up tens of thousands of dollars (You have spent more than $50,000 IIRC?) and I know that Engines can be the most expensive part for a little game if you don't want to go the GLP route.

You said in reply that you'd licenced an engine, but didn't say what engine, or for how much. I'm sorry but your reply was indeed vague.

If I'm going to invest, I'd want to know how much has been spent, to the nearest 1000 dollars or so, on each aspect of development so far. I'd also want to know how much will be spent, to the nearest 1000 dollars or so, on each as-yet incomplete aspect of development.

I didn't raise these thoughts over on Tac Comms, because I didn't want to harm your chances of your game doing well (I felt like my asking more detailed questions and receiving vague answers or refusals would not help your chances), so I let the vagueness slide and stopped asking questions.

***I did the playstyle concept work, 3d maps and some of the 3d models for what we believe was one of the first publicly available true 3d RTS games, released early 1998. Here's a link to a sequel we did much later on, since I think the original game is now lost in the mists of the Internet:

Sorry. You have to be registered to access this content.

As anyone who follows that will be able to tell, I've been interested in the resource management side of gaming for quite a while -

Sorry. You have to be registered to access this content.

is built on very similar concepts to my old RTS games...

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Last edited by Evil and Chaos (2012-06-12 10:18:21)

Ade

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anathema wrote:
You know what? A barely coherent rant posted on a small forum has now convinced me to invest. Well played sir.

Indeed for the potential price of a couple of pints (and potential if the game does not hit funding I don't get charged) I can get a nice little game to play on my netbook. Only really interested at going in at the $10 pledge the as miniature is too rich for my blood, and doing QA seems like work to me.

anathema

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You can be sure any company looking to invest in another will perform due diligence which will indeed require the recipient to disclose their financial situation and future plans under a non disclosure agreement. You're asking individuals to do something no company would do and then implying its unreasonable for them to want to perform their own due diligence.

Would your company invest in another while knowing next to nothing about it? Of course not.

Curis

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Ade wrote:
Indeed for the potential price of a couple of pints (and potential if the game does not hit funding I don't get charged)...

It's a flexible funding campaign - won't they get all the money pledged regardless of whether they hit their target?

Curis

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This article from a while back on the

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was interesting.

The ugly side of Kickstarter: the risks in backing game dev campaigns are greater than you think

Ben Kuchera / Wed, Apr 18, 2012

The Penny Arcade Report has an email address for story leads and tips, and a significant percentage of those “tips” are solicitations for coverage of indie game Kickstarter projects. It seems that everyone is envious of the millions being raised by high-profile game projects, and they want a taste of that sweet, sweet funding. Kickstarter isn’t just a way to find alternate funding, it’s a goldrush, with all the risk and possible reward implied by that term.

Kickstarter allows anyone to become a “backer” of game development, and the crazy thing is you effectively vote with your wallet by purchasing a game before it is finished, or even before development is launched. In one case a development team begged me to help them spread the word about a campaign to fund their presentation to major developers. Yes: the Kickstarter was for a presentation that, hopefully, would result in a publishing deal. This is not a wise use of money.

So let’s be smart about this. If we’re being asked to become backers of projects, what sort of projects should we look for? What should a Kickstarter campaign do in order to make us comfortable handing over our money? It’s time to bring in an expert.
Investing in the winners

Kevin Dent set up and ran the game studio CI Media, before the company merged with another studio and was later bought by yet another entity. Dent also advised studios as an angel investor, but has now left the world of game publishing, for various reasons. “I decided to exile myself from the world of publishing at a point in time when deals with developers became less about making a great game and more about playing a game of ‘heads I win, tails you lose’ with developers,” he said.

So what does he do now? “I mentor a lot of studios, advise investors, and help studios find capital to make their games—and I am extremely selective in this regard,” he explained. “I also help some of the board of the International Game Developers Association, I am a finalist judge for the Imagine Cup and I still invest my own money into titles.” Kevin Dent has worked in the video game industry for 13 years, and he knows what to look for in projects during each stage of development.

He also has strong feelings about Kickstarter. “I love Kickstarter, I want to marry Kickstarter and I want to curl it up and eat it,” he said. It’s another way for developers to find funding for their games, and he supports that 100 percent. The problem is that the pitches range from “fantastic to dog shit.”

“I think developers need to really treat this as a professional process, treat it like they are coming into my office and pitching me an idea, because that is EXACTLY what they are doing,” he said. “They are coming into my office via my PC and saying ‘gimme your money dude.’”

So what should developers do when starting a Kickstarter campaign? What red flags should backers look for?
Understand the budget

“I was talking to one world-class creator recently, and he told me his budget was about $1.5M. I said great, so you need to raise a little over $2M?” Dent said. The creator responded that no, $1.5M would be enough. “This guy basically did not even factor in the taxes he would have to pay on the money raised. This is a super important point because if it is going to cost X you need to raise Y to cover the taxes.”

“If someone is trying to tell you that they can make an FPS for under $2M they are going to give me cause to pause,” Dent said.

One recent Kickstarter campaign raised almost $37,000 out of a $20,000 goal, so the team is on easy street, right? In fact, an update on the Kickstarter campaign broke down where the money went, and even explains the mistakes made in planning and execution of the team’s plan. This is an important lesson: Very few teams asking for money via Kickstarter have extensive, or even moderate, knowledge of business, taxes, or organizing the game development process in the long term.

It’s also easy to underestimate the financial and time investment the bonus structure requires. “We just didn’t fully appreciate the cost of printing 200 posters, shirts, and more than anything shipping. Shipping is a) expensive b) a pain in the ass when you have tubes and c) time consuming,” the Star Command team stated. “None of those things are productive. We don’t resent having sent that stuff off; we think the posters and shirts are awesome and we are super proud of them and it seems like everyone loved them, so that’s great. But they were a lot of work.”

Dent showed me one Kickstarter campaign that he feels is risky. “I look at this game and I feel that either they are just overwhelmingly confused about the costs involved in shipping this title or I just don’t know what it is,” he said. A team composed entirely of production people, with no “business guys,” may not fully comprehend the total costs involved in creating a game. For example, Dent is currently working on “Minecraft version of a first-person shooter” that will allow people to create their own maps. The game is privately funded, with costs of $1.2 million dollars to date.

“So if someone is trying to sell you a Porsche on Craigslist for $5,000.00 you are going to naturally feel nervous. If someone is trying to sell you that they can make an FPS for under $2M they are going to give me cause to pause,” Dent said.

He also points out the project is about to begin to need the highest level of funding. “Of course they are saying that they have been putting their own money into it so far–which I have no reason to not believe them–but they also say that they are going into full production now, and full production is where games actually cost the most money. I just can’t see how less than $300k gets them to that point.”
Experience counts

“The other thing that I would look at is what have these guys done before?” Dent said. “What street cred do they have? Do they have a track record of delivering on titles? No? OK then did any former colleagues go on record and give a reference to say these guys will work their asses off to deliver a great title?” Steve Jobs famously said that real artists ship, and the majority of smaller games that enter development never see completion; when you’re working on your first or even second game the largest danger is the fact that you often don’t know what you don’t know.

I once asked Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney what smaller teams should focus on during development, and he said polish. “The area where most teams fail is insufficient polish. Cliff [Bleszinksi] always says there’s the first 90 percent of the project, and then the second 90 percent. Because once your game is completely playable and it works, you’re really only halfway,” Sweeney explained. “It takes an incredible amount of tweaking to get to the level of polish where people take your game seriously.”

Most novice developers don’t understand the enormity of game development, and the act of creating a good game is herculean, no matter the size of your team or the scope of your game. If you haven’t shipped at least one or two games, or if your team lacks someone of sufficient experience, you could look like a very bad bet to the eyes of the investor—or Kickstarter backer.

“Overall, I want to ‘invest’ in a game that I want to play or made by a guy that I adore,” Dent said. “I spoke to/begged David Jaffe recently about using Kickstarter to make a game. I have no idea where he is on that or if he is going to go down that route. My point is that I love Jaffe’s games, so if I were to see that he was setting that up in Kickstarter, I would instantly support it.” This might be the best, or at least safest, use of Kickstarter: The service allows proven talent to create games with a large audience but limited appeal to traditional investors.
Let the backers inside

An often overlooked part of Double Fine’s Kickstarter success was the inclusion of a documentary crew making a film about what it takes to create a video game. People who contributed to the game aren’t just getting something new to play, they’re paying for a rare look into a major studio as it creates an adventure game. That’s a tremendous amount of value added to the campaign, even though the project will obviously be different than standard game development.

“This is not how all games get made. It’s going to be much different than how most games get made. It’s not going to be a perfect representation of the development cycle,” Paul Levering from Two Player Productions explained. “It’s definitely going to be this weird, hybrid development cycle that not many people have experienced before. It’s hard to say how similar it’s going to be to any other game that gets made. We don’t know if they are going to have the same problems. It will probably be a whole host of problems no one has experienced before.” Doesn’t that sound fascinating? Who wouldn’t want to see that?

Dent agreed that this is a great opportunity for fans to see how the sausage is made. “I dearly want to see studios approach Kickstarter in the exact same way that they would reach out to me. During the process they should be sharing the dev cycle experience with the contributors, warts and all. I want to be part of the fucking experience, I want to know when you inserted a chunk of code that would embarrass your college professors,” he said. “I want to hear about the cheers and tears. I want to feel like I am watching a reality TV show. Otherwise I can wait until the game hits Gamestop or whatever and buy it then.”

In other words, the best projects don’t just reward backers with the game and a poster. They also offer access to the development process.
Backer Beware

Studios such as EA and Activision employ people with decades of game development experience to lead their projects, and even games with multimillion dollar budgets are cancelled with alarming regularity. The odds of a two-man team with a game prototype understanding how to use their windfall efficiently while delivering a good game are not high, no matter how good the video on the site may look.

Point being: Not all Kickstarter projects will succeed. It’s inevitable that some will fail. This is one reason why Kickstarter is very particular about using the term “backer” and avoiding the term “investor.” Dent explains, “It is not actually an investment in the legal sense of the word. The contributor is actually buying something to be part of the game.” Backers get tangible rewards in exchange for their dollars: shirts, videos, forum access, and (typically) a copy of the game if and when it is completed. It’s a purchase, not an investment.

Of those projects that do manage to ship, some will be good games and some will be awful, with most winding up somewhere in the middle. This is the reality of game development in the real world, and projects funded by Kickstarter are no different. The unfortunate truth is that many backers of game projects are buying the ability to wait 18 months to play a mediocre game.

There are no assurances in this system. “It is the responsibility of the project creator to fulfill the promises of their project,” the official page states. “Kickstarter reviews projects to ensure they do not violate the Project Guidelines, however Kickstarter does not investigate a creator’s ability to complete their project.” It’s very possible that the project you’re helping to fund won’t be finished, and I’m going to go ahead and call it: We’re a few months away from the first Kickstarter scam or controversy. There is too much money at stake and too little critical thinking at the moment, and that’s an inviting situation for people looking to make a quick buck. Be skeptical of every project, as if you were investing, not just backing.
So if you want your Kickstarter covered, or you want to back a project…

Make sure you only spend money you’re willing to lose if you’re thinking about backing a game project on Kickstarter. Or put another way, realize that your contribution is a purchase for a specific thing—a poster, a t-shirt, video updates, the game—and that the intangible elements of a fun game, or the fulfillment of some scrappy team’s creative vision, is just a bonus. Features change, the original design may not work, or the prototype that looked so promising may not make for a good game upon completion.

If you are trying to get the Penny Arcade Report, or Kotaku, or Joystiq, or any other outlet to cover your Kickstarter campaign, focus on the game. Tell us the story behind your team. Hook us with the product you’re trying to sell and if it’s a good story and a promising game the links to you Kickstarter campaign will come. Your product is the game that you’re pouring yourself into, and that’s what is interesting to the press and gamers. Make that unique. The fact you have a Kickstarter campaign is likely to be the most boring aspect of your project.

Pitch accordingly.

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Last edited by Curis (2012-06-12 11:15:24)

GR00V3R

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Evil and Chaos wrote:
Yeah, that GR00V3R guy is too vague and dodgey.
Sorry dude, you must surely know I respect you personally.

Hi E&C,

Sounds like we've had a communication breakdown, mate; you'll have to forgive me because I don't remember being asked what engine we were using. The engine's no mystery — it's the pro version of Unity, which we have a lot of experience with now as we started using it for Orbital Defence back in 2009, and we have several projects in development now — including EW:FE — that all use it. Needless to say, we really like Unity; it's a very good middleware product.

In response to your questions around costs-to-date, the major costs are all obvious once: hardware, software, various other set-up related costs and time. If I've seemed vague, it's be cause I really want to focus the discussion on how to make the game Awesome, not about our internal business practises or book-keeping arrangements. (For the record, I manage the books, and both I and our accountant are happy with them.)

While I (sadly) don't work full-time for the business, both Josh and Glenn do now, and they like to be paid. In addition, we've been working on this bad boy on and off since 2009, so there's also some in-kind effort cost built in.

Let's clarify the discussion a little. When we're talking about "40% of X", what we're talking about is the minimum spec game, which we've described as "The $35,000 Game" for simplicity. This represents a total investment of, talking in round figures, $82,000, then, which is the money spent plus the minimum funds we're seeking from the campaign.

In this minimum spec version, people will get to play simple infantry and armour only games, as described on the campaign page — no super-vehicles, no aircraft, no spacecraft. If you review the videos again, you'll see that there are already a lot of infantry and armour units in the game.

From the videos, you can see that:

we have a game engine;
we have a plethora of infantry and armour units (ignoring the Behemoth super-vehicles you can see for the time being);
we have the UI (a work-in-progress, but useable as-is); and,
possibly most importantly because it's such a time-sink, we have a rock-solid game design and this design is documented).

Based on the above and an analysis of what we have vs the work that lies ahead, our assessment is we are about 40% complete.

I'd want to know how much has been spent, to the nearest 100 dollars or so, on each aspect of development so far.
I'm sorry, mate, but no business would pander to that sort of request from it's customers. And I think this is the core misunderstanding — I see arguments here that amount to "We're investors, so we should have access to whatever we want", and that's just not the case. The relationship is much more akin to a business-customer relationship, and businesses don't give their customers audit rights.

I'm happy to give you and anyone else who asks general figures like those above, but breaking down a P&L "to the nearest $100 or so" just isn't a reasonable request and I respectfully decline.

If that means you won't support us, as it seems is the case, then I of course respect your position.

Added 06.12.2012 15:00:39:
Hi Steve,

You'll find the answers to most of your questions in my response to E&C; however, I think it's important to again clarify the relationship somewhat:

To use your private companies example - I guarantee if 10 private companies were looking for investment they would be happy to give financial details to interested possible investors...

With a potential investor, you indeed might share everything including an audit of your books, but not with a contributor in a crowd funding campaign. No; the relationship is much more one of business-to-customer than it is business-to-investor. Personally, I don't ask to see the cafe's books before ordering my lunch.

If you were an investor and if we were seeking investors at that time, you would most likely have received a different response; however, you are not and we are not. There is no equivalency between contributors and investors, be they individuals or companies — in both cases, investors are partners in the business, which is why it is so vital that they engage in due diligence practises and ensure their (often substantial) investment is not a bad one.

At any rate, I thank you for your interest, and I respect your decision not to support us. I ask that you afford us the same respect.

I wish you all the best in finding a business that will allow you to audit their books next time you want to buy a sandwich from them or something.

Added 06.12.2012 15:05:27:

Ade wrote:
Indeed for the potential price of a couple of pints (and potential if the game does not hit funding I don't get charged) I can get a nice little game to play on my netbook. Only really interested at going in at the $10 pledge the as miniature is too rich for my blood, and doing QA seems like work to me.

Thanks, Ade, and we very much hope you will support us.

You're right, though; the QA process could indeed be a lot of work as, particularly at Alpha, the game is likely to crash a fair bit and frustrate the bajesus out of you.

GR00V3R

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Curis wrote:
This article from a while back on the
Sorry. You have to be registered to access this content.
was interesting.

Hi Curtis. Yes, I'm intimately familiar with that article — I'm sure all indies contemplating a crowd funding campaign are by now.

It's both a good article and a sad moment in the history of crowd funding as, while there's a lot of truth to the negative aspects, the overall effect of sites like Penny Arcade being reticent about discussing crowd funding campaigns (or worse, having blanket policies of not reporting on them at all) has the potential to kill the crowd funding dream.

It's a least taken the sheen off it for indie's like us who don't have Tim Schafer working with us.

I've already had two conversations with journos where I've made that argument, and fortunately talked them around (I hope). I'm a professional writer by trade, though, and used to arguing a point; many indie's are more from the technical persuasion and, I think, will struggle in the face of such rejections. Time will tell, I s'pose, but I can't help but feel sad at the negativity when what we and other indies are trying to do is create something cool.

Added 06.12.2012 15:15:12:

anathema wrote:
Would your company invest in another while knowing next to nothing about it? Of course not.

Hi anathema. Hopefully, you've seen my response to E&C and Steve on this point — I respectfully disagree that this logic applies in the crowd funding context.

Steve54

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It was you who compared yourselves to a 'proper' business. To take your next comparison I wouldn't give £5 to a cafe on the understanding that I MIGHT get a sandwich, especially if I can see no evidence that they are capable of making it.

I still can see no reason why
A) you won't give any financial details however broad
+are incredibly evasive and hostile to any questions
B) are getting salaries
As far as I can see there is nothing to stop you raising just short of your target and saying 'sorry no game or demo' to everybody and dividing the cash between you. Indeed we have no evidence this isn't what happened to whoever provided the initial funds.

If this is the manner you're going to react in to people who air legitimate queries you might want somebody else to doing the posting - perhaps they could increase their salary by taking on that role?

Evil and Chaos

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I'm happy to give you and anyone else who asks general figures like those above, but breaking down a P&L "to the nearest $100 or so" just isn't a reasonable request and I respectfully decline.

You'll note that I went back and edited that typo : I want a breakdown to the nearest $1000 of where the $47,000 to date has been spent, not $100. Furthermore you haven't given any spending figures at all, general or otherwise, apart from a total of $47,000 - I had to go visit the Unity website to check how much their licence costs.

I'd also ask another question, one that Steve touched on: Where has the seed funding come from, and is the company currently liquid?

If my investment would be swallowed up to service the company's existing debts (perhaps there's a $47,000 loan that the three employees have been paying themselves salaries out of?), then again I would shy away from contributing.

Put simply I'd like to know if the company is spending money wisely before giving it my money, and the easiest way to do that is to see a breakdown in percentage or absolute terms of expenditure to date, and the same again in a projection for future spending.

the pro version of Unity

So, the $1500 spent on the game engine would already have been spent during the development for your previous game, and isn't actually included in the $47,000 spent on this game so far, or do you need to buy a new licence in order to produce a second game?

I thank you for your interest, and I respect your decision not to support us.

You're wrongly assuming I can't be persuaded to invest. I just need more information in order to make up my mind.

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Last edited by Evil and Chaos (2012-06-12 14:35:56)

GR00V3R

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Evil and Chaos wrote:
You'll note that I went back and edited that typo : I want a breakdown to the nearest $1000 of where the $47,000 to date has been spent, not $100. Furthermore you haven't given any spending figures at all, general or otherwise, apart from a total of $47,000 - I had to go visit the Unity website to check how much their licence costs.

I did actually miss that. Even so, my answer remains the same. Sorry, but we won't discuss financials — beyond what I've shared below, anyway.

Evil and Chaos wrote:
I'd also ask another question, one that Steve touched on: Where has the seed funding come from, and is the company currently liquid?

Ahhhh...I see the source of your concern. Okay; that's a reasonable concern and I can address that with a simple statement.

The company has zero debts. The company is well and truly viable and has good liquidity. We are not running the crowd funding campaign to shore up losses or anything like that. We're running the crowd funding campaign in order

(a) to make the next 3-6 months of working on EW:FE substantially easier, if we should achieve the $35k, or HOPEFULLY
(b) to expand the scope of EW:FE to include all sorts of units and features that we could never hope to be able to afford to do just with the funding currently available to us, if we should over-achieve (we could seriously make EW:FE amazing if we could hit $200k+, but given the negativity we're seeing, my guess is that's very unlikely).

I'm not at liberty to tell you the origins of our funding — not just yet, anyway. I am genuinely sorry for that.

Evil and Chaos wrote:
If my investment would be swallowed up to service the company's existing debts (perhaps there's a $47,000 loan that the three employees have been paying themselves salaries out of?), then again I would shy away from contributing.

I absolutely understand. Again, the company has no debts. Literally zero. We have cash at bank and our cashflow is currently positive. Beyond that, I won't comment, sorry.

Evil and Chaos wrote:
the pro version of Unity
So, the $1500 spent on the game engine would already have been spent during the development for your previous game, and isn't actually included in the $47,000 spent on this game so far, or do you need to buy a new licence in order to produce a second game?

No. When we made Orbital Defence, it was with the free version — if you boot up OD on a convenient iPhone or iPad, you'll see that it tellingly displays the Unity logo at launch. We were doing it on an even tighter budget then.

By the way, I think you'll find the Unity with OSX, iOS and Android support costs a lot more than $1,500.

Evil and Chaos wrote:
I thank you for your interest, and I respect your decision not to support us.
You're wrongly assuming I can't be persuaded to invest. I just need more information in order to make up my mind.

Mate, we'd obviously love to have you on-board, but if visibility into our finances via P&L, Cashflow Analysis or otherwise is required, we truly are not at liberty to share those things with you.

I genuinely hope you'll consider supporting us. We need all the help we can get in order to make EW:FE the game we want it to be.

GR00V3R

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Hi again,

I deeply regret that you're not satisfied by my responses tonight; however, for legal reasons, I cannot give you more detail about our financials.

Steve54 wrote:
As far as I can see there is nothing to stop you raising just short of your target and saying 'sorry no game or demo' to everybody and dividing the cash between you. Indeed we have no evidence this isn't what happened to whoever provided the initial funds.

Okay. That's absolutely true. That possibility does exist and we could do that...if we wanted to destroy everything we've built over the past three years, not to mention our personal credibility with our friends and others within the gaming community. We don't.

Abyssal Terror

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I am quickly going to defend myself about the background. Yes I called it very 40k. I KNOW that 40k isn't the only SF out there, but I think you can also appeciate my quick summary of how it is perceived compared to the Behemoth of GW. I didn't know that one of the team was on the forum, hence my very brief one line.

The comparison being so close is the problem and just because others have used very similar before shouldn't mean to try something a bit different. Yes I sounded very ignorant but a lot of your potential customers are too. I would have been nice to seen a more interesting universe. I understand the possible limitations of time of existence, number of writers etc., but I still feel that the comparison might be too close and harm your overall business.

I can ellaborate more in a PM or similar. Sorry to break up all the finiancial discussions :p

GR00V3R

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Abyssal Terror wrote:
I am quickly going to defend myself about the background. Yes I called it very 40k. I KNOW that 40k isn't the only SF out there, but I think you can also appeciate my quick summary of how it is perceived compared to the Behemoth of GW. I didn't know that one of the team was on the forum, hence my very brief one line.

The comparison being so close is the problem and just because others have used very similar before shouldn't mean to try something a bit different. Yes I sounded very ignorant but a lot of your potential customers are too. I would have been nice to seen a more interesting universe. I understand the possible limitations of time of existence, number of writers etc., but I still feel that the comparison might be too close and harm your overall business.

I can ellaborate more in a PM or similar. Sorry to break up all the finiancial discussions :p

Hi Abyssal Terror,

No need to defend your opinion, mate—I absolutely recognise there are some similarities between the Exodus Wars IP and various other sci-fi universes...<cough>. Membraine Studios doesn't own the Exodus Wars IP, of course—we are developing the game under license with Steel Crown Productions, but I can try to field your comments from our perspective at least.

One of the reasons we selected the Exodus Wars universe in which to make our game was its proximity to the familiar—people love Battletech and enormous walking tanks; people love soldiers encased in powered armour who, even so, are still vulnerable because of the awesome firepower of the universe's weaponry; and Exodus Wars has both.

By the way, in less than 24 hours, you'll have a whole lot more goodies to review in relationship to Fractured Empire. I'll post here again when it's all gone live, and hopefully you'll all like what you see.

Abyssal Terror

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Ah, wasn't informed of your degree of seperation. I hope it goes well, and look forward and hope it all works

GR00V3R

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Thanks, Abyssal. We hope so too!

By the way, I blogged about Exodus Wars: Fractured Empire and doing a tabletop wargame on

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.

Let me know what you think.

GR00V3R

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Hi everyone! So we had our hard-launch yesterday, and you may have seen a few reactions to our press release already.

I've added a list of the sites that have covered us so far to

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—some great write-ups there, and we're of course keen to see if we get picked up by sites like Rock, Paper, Shotgun, Kotaku and Penny Arcade (there's a lot of reticence to cover crowd funding campaigns currently, but we're working to overcome that—time will tell).

We also have added our new teaser video showcasing the large (24'x8'-equivalent) desert map, and a Gameplay Explained - Part 1 video. We hope you like them.

Cheers!
GR00V3R

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Warning: date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/include/functions.php on line 629

Last edited by GR00V3R (2012-06-16 12:35:31)

GR00V3R

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Hi everyone!

I'm back with another update. See, we're pretty stoked here at Membraine HQ, and I thought I'd share with you why that is.

iPAD AND LINUX SUPPORT ANNOUNCEMENT VIDEO
Our community members already know from an earlier update, but here it is again: Fractured Empire, is now targeting Windows PC, Apple Mac and iPad, and Linux all on Day 1. (When Day 1 will be is still undecided, of course, as our

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still has around 20 days left to run, but we remain quietly optimistic.)

We're ready to share the news that we'll now be shipping iPad and Linux versions of Fractured Empire alongside the PC and Mac versions with the wider gaming public, so we're doing a press release to iPad-related gaming sites. To that end, we've also put together a little vignette explaining why we're announcing iPad support.

We think you'll like it:

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We look forward to reading your reactions.

WE'RE EXCITED!!
Rock Paper Shotgun's mention of us today called out the fact that we seem to have stalled this week, seeing just $600 in contributions. While we'd of course much rather see lots of contributions each week, and the obvious math is that we need to see about $1,500 a day roll in from here on in, we're nonetheless very excited because the media response has really been pretty phenomenal, especially considering the "vibe" in the games media around crowd funding right now that we were discussing.

Getting a mention on Rock Paper Shotgun (even in the context of negativity about a Flexible Funding campaign) was HUGE for us—and they put up one of our vids! And then we got mentioned by Rock Paper Shotgun again this weekend! That the guys at RPS are watching us is HUGE, and (as you can probably tell) that's got us pretty pumped.

We're helped a lot by the fact the gaming community really does want this game—that much is clear now. So, at the very least, we know there is a market for this game, which was one of the major reasons for running this campaign.

We've just passed the $5,000 milestone with just under 20 days to go, but it seems to be the case with crowd funding campaigns that most of "the action", as such, happens in the last 10 days, so we remain hopeful.

It seems to go like this:

* You either have a big burst of enthusiasm from the crowd (probably applies only if you already have an established fan-base, which we didn’t) or you start slowly, like we have.
* Then you see a lull in contributions as non-fans join and watch/wait.
* And then you either see a surge in the last week as the watchers get into the game...or you fizzle out.

We're doing everything we can to ensure we get a surge and not a fizzle.

SOME VERY POSITIVE NEWS
Now let me give you some VERY positive news, which is that, whatever happens with our campaign, we’ve been shown that the market really does want this game—so, come hell or high water, WE ARE MAKING IT. It will just take us longer if we don’t achieve the funding levels we need. So the crowd funding campaign has become all about when we can get it to you, not if. I hope those words are as good to read as they were to type.

If the campaign is successful, we’ll be able to focus our efforts 100% on completing the game. If not, it just means we’ll need to continue focussing on our consulting work and casual games in order to fund EW:FE’s development—which is what we’re doing now and, as you can see, the game's coming together...it’s just been coming together vvveeerrryyy sssllloooooooooowwwllllyyy to this point (because we keep getting distracted by needing money for frivolous things like food and heat).

So that's where we are now; while things are going pretty well, we of course still have a lot of work to do to show the community that we're worthy of their support.

Hopefully, you think we're doing just that, you're reaching for your wallet to buy a perk and back us, and you're telling your friends about us. (I am The Eternal Optimist.)

Cheers!
Mark (GR00V3R)

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Exodus Wars: Fractured Empire

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