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Ade

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As a late entry I have offered to play either Late or Mid war (Late pref) at this years Brit con.

Fiddling with lists I came up with this for Late War:

Armoured Rifle (CT)

HQ (25)

Full ARP (240)
Full ARP (240)

Recon with 2 squads (70)
3 M8 Scott (120)
5 Shermans (345)

Tank Destroyers 2 Sections M10 335
Armoured Artillery (185)

Priority Air (190)

I am not sure about the Scotts as late war they loose the ability to throw out smoke. If I had the models I would happily replace them with more proper Artillery (but for now at least not spending nay more on my Yanks) may swap them for some Anti Tank Gums and possible some HMG's (may need the air being swapped to limited)

Again if I had the models I would probably add in 5 Stewarts somewhere.

Will post up veteran list soon.

anathema

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Can you use Lees LW? Aside from that I agree that the Scotts probably aren't much cop. I'm under the impression that they can't bombard, is that right? If they can then another pinning template is always useful, if not then the AT guns or HMGs would probably be more useful. Trouble with low AT assault guns is that they're not that great at what they're supposed to do: kill dug in infantry and gun teams. Firing them over direct sights at a strong defensive position is a good way to give away a cheap platoon kill unfortunately.

Ade

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No Lees in Late War (historically the US replaced them with the Sherman)

The Scott's can still put down bombardments but no Smoke making them not as useful as they are in MW, really I would take armoured Mortars over them if I had the models. Will have a fiddle and see what I can get for AT guns and HMG's means a little bit of painting to do but nothing massive.

Will see about knocking together a CV army with them later.

Ade

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Just thought If i can swap the Scotts for AT guns and HMG's puts me in the magic 8 Platoons for deployment.

anathema

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Sounds good, 8 platoons is good for defending, you get your AR platoons plus you can start with the correct support for the situation. How many teams and Bazookas does each AR platoon get? I remember reading that its a very silly amount LW.

Ade

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5 Bazookas, 2 LMG + 1 Mortar in 14 teams, a properly ridiculous amount. I think I am getting the hang of them now, should actually be able to make MAWS over the next few weeks as well (work and other stuff been getting in the way a bit recently)

Ade

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ok list is as above but with no scotts, 3 AT guns and 1 section of HMG's, dropping the Air down to Limited.

Gives me one 8 platoons, if defending in breakthrough deploy as 8 in most other scenarios attach the HMG's to one of the Armoured Rifle platoons to stop them giving away an easy platoon kill.

anathema

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That causes problems in Hold the Line and Cauldron though, probably best to have them as your last reserve platoon coming on in that case, but good in Fighting Withdrawal. I'm quite annoyed that I can't combat attach my Airborne HMGs, it'd be really useful to stick one in each Airlanding platoon. They'd rival Armoured Rifles platoons for flexibility then.

Fancy a Britcon test game at some point?

Ade

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sure I will let you kick my arse can you make it on Monday? or else we can come round to yours.

anathema

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Might be able to do Monday, especially as the wife is buggering off for most of Saturday leaving me holding the baby.

Not sure on the ass-kicking, knocking a couple of full ARPs off an objective looks pretty damn tricky before I even consider the fact that there's support for that as well. Tanks don't like the sound of 5 bazookas and infantry aren't going to be too happy about assaulting into 2 LMGs and another load of rifle fire. There's then the small matter of having to try and kill 14 stands. At least they're Trained so they're easier to hit I guess!

Ade

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Cool let me know if you can make Monday, not looking forward to trying to take out 20 or so tanks.

Ade

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Mid War my list is something like this:

HQ (45)

Armoured Infantry Platoon (240)
Additional Rifle Squad, Replace M3 37mm gun with Bazooka, 3x Additional Bazooka

Armoured Infantry Platoon (255)
Additional Rifle Squad, Replace M3 37mm gun with Bazooka, 4x Additional Bazooka

Recon Platoon (50)
1 Squad

Assault Gun Platoon (155)
3 M8 Scott

Tank Platoon (460)
4 M4 Sherman

Armoured Field Artillery Battery (180)
1 section of M7 Priests

Limited Air (130)
P40 Warhawk

Self Propelled Anti-Tank Platoon (235)
1 Section M10's

anathema

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Post battle analysis:

Well, in a fit of hindsight generalship I really screwed that up. However important point learnt, always run my big assault platoon through woods or concealing terrain at least when I can. They have wide tracks ffs.

I set up my objective giving me a perfect hidden route to it. I should have boshed my infiltrate move 16" into the forest, 2 turns of movement and I'm in assault. Even with 14 teams I reckon I could have had a damn good go at grinding them down as I have 17 teams in that platoon!

Recon could push ambushes outside of LOS to the tanks in the woods, infantry could have dismounted increasing the chances of getting everything to target intact. I even could have had a turn of firing to try and thin the defenders out. Everything else should have gone up the road to keep you guessing (possibly even doubling a platoon in order to draw an ambush away from the objective) and then swung right into the open area to try to take care of any ambushes by overloading them with targets and shooting them lots.

If nothing else it would have made your ambushes more difficult. Soviets seem to work best when I strike directly and overload sections of the defending army, for some reason I keep getting ideas of fancy two-pronged adnvances and deep flank attacks. Gah!

As it was you played it well, those M10s were a real problem. If I'd moved my tanks through the woods and dislodged that AR platoon they'd be left in the awkward position of trying to shoot me off the objective. As it was I let them stop my advance across open ground. Attempting to think I could dislodge an AR platoon from behind a wall was retarded too. If my assaults had actually continued I'd have been on skill checks for the tanks. Not good.

Ade

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I was expecting you to rush everything at the first objective, I had limited spots to place my ambushes (and maybe should have deployed the anti tank guns on the objective with the ARP keeping them dug in at the start of the game). My Shermans carried on a tradition of being crap probably should have kept them behind that hill for another turn to shore up that flank later, that ARP was deployed badly anyway I should have spread out a little bit more to allow gaps for the tanks to be planted behind the wall just sitting there GtG and waiting to strike out and get some side armour shots.

Coming down the table created a target rich environment for my planes. I think could have easily overwhelmed the objective early on if you had the mind to leaving me then trying to shoot you off it with very limited AT assets and probably mostly useless planes. I think the turning point was probably going after your assault guns in CC forcing them back and then collapsing that flank.

You failing every platoon command check and me taking out your CiC first turn really didn't help you any.

Quietly confident that i might win a game at Britcon now

anathema

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I always present a target-rich environment for planes anyway, but in HtL especially. Hen and Chicks results in the tanks bunching up if only to be able to get shots off. I really really should have just rushed that objective with a wall of armour. Also getting close negates planes. Ah well. Occasionally I do play the army in the way it works well and I win games, most of the time though I try the fancy stuff and fail. I might write 'sledgehammer, not rapier' on my hand for Britcon.

Ade

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"The two most dangerous weapons the Germans have are our own armored halftrack and jeep. The halftrack because the boys in it go all heroic, thinking they are in a tank. The jeep because we have so many God-awful drivers."

Gen George s. Patton

I have that written at the top of my Army list.

Ade

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After this weekend I have a few changes in mind to do at some point in the future

1) get an AOP
2) Some heavy artillery to supplement my firepower and be able to take out the big bastards (combine with forcing re-rolls on saves should be lethal if I can force people to cluster there tanks close together)
3) Possibly drop the Shermans in favour of Stuarts (in two minds about this the Shermans extra AT and Firepower did come in handy)
4) Swap the M10's for M18 Hellcats the extra speed is well worth the drop in armour.

The list held up well throughout the weekend only letting me down horribly in the first two games. It does lack reliable AT punch at range but I managed to overcome that on the whole, the throw away HMG's paid for their cost all weekend by wiping out a Soviet Infantry company over a few turns of shooting, and keeping some Tommies from assaulting me in game 2.

I think I really do prefer Late war to mid.

anathema

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Swap the M10's for M18 Hellcats the extra speed is well worth the drop in armour.

Sounds a good idea, LW any armour less than 6-7+ is usually straight to a firepower test anyway.

jimmy

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yeah, i'm thinking I prefer Late to Mid - but that might just be my brit lists

Ade

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Have juggled a few points and come up with this:

HQ w/Bazooka (40)

Full ARP (240)
Full ARP (240)

Recon 1 squad with Bazooka (65)

Armoured Mortars (105)
5 Shermans (345)

Tank Destroyers 2 Sections M10 (335)
Armoured Artillery (185)
1 section of Heavy Art (155)

Air Observer

May swap the M10's for Hellcats at some point but the cost is the same....

Basically my Britcon list without the planes but Heavy Art in their place (AT5 bombardments) and more than likely forcing re-rolls on saves should be sweet. Force opponent to spread out more wich helps me to isolate platoons with smoke and then assault. The AOP is useful as an extra spotter does not count towards my platoon count and denies enemy ambushes (and needs either enemy air or dedicated AA to shoot it down)

Dropped the AT guns from my britcon list (occasionally useful but no great loss) and the HMG's but gain another smoke thrower and another template to pound stuff with.

Flame On Forum

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