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skcuzzlebumm

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So insomnia hits again and as ever when this happens I write army lists.

Been thinking more and more about my next army lately. Something which should have occurred to me sooner is that with 6th Ed due in the Summer current tricks and the like are liable to change. But I don't want to wait till the summer to start and new army. So following on from the idea that things will change my new army should be something that will be pretty solid and able to adapt to anything that changes next summer. With that in mind it has to be Vanilla Marines, nothing else is as flexible IMO.

Now the next hurdle is that if I am doing a new army it might as well be one that would work well both in the UK and in Sweden, specifically under the Swedish Comp system which a lot of tournaments run there:

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Futhermore advice I have gotten for the guys over there is to aim for a 50 comp point army due to how comp effects your in game score (can make it go up or down if higher or lower than your opponents).

As an example of what I mean here are army lists from a forthcoming tournament:

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50 also tends to be the highest minimum comp score bar tournaments set so its a good target of a generic army. That way I'll have an out the box army to play with over there as much as here.

So with all that in mind, and my usual love for Terminators to boot this is what I am thinking of working on:

Neil's Generic Grey Generic Marines

Lysander = 200 (-9)

10 Terminators: 2 Cyclone Missile Launchers (50) = 460 (-15)

Dreadnought: 2x Twin Auto-Cannons = 125 (-3)

Dreadnought: 2x Twin Auto-Cannons = 125 (-4*)

10 Tactical Marines: Flamer, Missile Launcher = 170 (-3.5)
+ Razorback: Twin-Plasmagun & Lascannon = 75 (-4*)

10 Tactical Marines: Flamer, Missile Launcher = 170 (-3.5)
+ Razorback: Twin-Plasmagun & Lascannon = 75 (-5*)

Thunderfire Cannon = 100 (-3)**

Total Points = 1500
Total Comp = 57

* extra points adjusted for multiple vehicle penalty
** ??? switch this out for a Librarian with Null Zone & Gate (-6)???

Pretty solid base of an army (IMO) that includes (unsurprisingly for cheap old me) a lot of models from my Templars and is also a bit different from the norm (which always makes me happy).

Does all that make sense? And if so opinions (bearing in mind the Comp system if you can be arsed).

As for 1750pts i'll have a think about that depending upon what people suggest for the above.

stillfrosty

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Neil,

I am just wondering why lysander? He isn't really needed in my opinion. You could hypothetically take pedro and you get a lot more benefit out of it (+1 attack bonus, orbital bombardment) and he is cheaper. Just a thought.

Secondly, cyclones are 30 points a piece not 25 so you are a bit over on points.

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Last edited by stillfrosty (2011-09-23 02:34:38)

skcuzzlebumm

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Are they? Fair enough was going off memory (no codex in Sweden). Melta Guns dropped.

Lysander because he gives Stubborn - so fuck you PBS, Bolster Defences - so can boost up to 2 ruins, Bolter Drill - so Terminators become more effective at range, and is bat-shit-crazy-hard in Combat - much more than Pedro.

mike

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I didn't think stubborn changed PBS?

Your -6 leaderhip. Yes you are still stubborn, just stubborn leadership 3.

Like fantasy.

skcuzzlebumm

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I've always heard it ruled the other way. Stubborn is that your leadership cannot be modified, so Weaken Resolve just bounces.

Its basically the crux of peoples argument of why it should affect Rites of Battle; as RoB doesn't say the anything about unmodifiable leadership, but then you get into the argument about does it carry over to the marshalls leadership or not, RAW says not.

mike

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I thought PBS reduced your leadership value. Stubborn only comes into play when you have to take a leadership test.

So PBS happens first. Your leadership value is reduced to x. Then when you come to take a test you take it on your unmodified leadership x.

Rites of battle is not affected as your leadership is reduced to x, but you don't use your leadership of x you use the marshals instead.

skcuzzlebumm

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I agree with you on both Mike.

But the rest of the internet and gaming community doesn't seem to. When I ruled both those points that way at the GT I got a lot of flak later on the forums as everyone is convinced it is the other way round and until GW rule (of the new GT peeps do) its hard to argue against.

Anyway's I realised something whilst on the bus yesterday, whilst I am planning for Gothcon I still have the ToS (Oct) Rolling Thunder (Nov) Caledonia (Jan) and UK40KGT (March) before I get to Gothcon in April.

So building on the above list I am thinking:

Lysander [200](-9)

10 Terminators: 2 Chainfists, 2 Cyclone Missile Launchers [470](-15)

Dreadnought: 2x Twin Auto-Cannons [125](-3)

Dreadnought: 2x Twin Auto-Cannons [125](-3)

10 Tactical Marines: Meltagun, Lascannon [185](-4.5)
+ Razorback: Twin-Plasmagun & Lascannon [75](-3)

10 Tactical Marines: Meltagun, Lascannon [185](-4.5)
+ Razorback: Twin-Plasmagun & Lascannon [75](-3)

6 Scouts: Sniper Rifles, Camo Cloaks [108](-1)

Thunderfire Cannon [100](-3)

Thunderfire Cannon [100](-4)

Vehicles(4)(-4)
Total Comp (50)
Total Points [1748]

YAY! kept it above that magical 50 mark.

So again what do people think?

For reference on how much this comp hates what we would think as normal balanced lists; here is what my 'balanced marines' score...

Librarian: Null Zone, Avenger [100](-5)

5 Assault Terminators: Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield [200](-11)
+ Land Raider: Multi-Melta [260](-17)

Dreadnought: 2x Twin Auto-Cannons [125](-3)

Dreadnought: 2x Twin Auto-Cannons [125](-3)

10 Tactical Marines: Flamer, Missile Launcher [185](-3)
+ Razorback: Twin-Plasmagun & Lascannon [75](-3)

10 Tactical Marines: Flamer, Missile Launcher [185](-3)
+ Razorback: Twin-Plasmagun & Lascannon [75](-3)

Landspeeder: Heavy Flamer, Typhoon Missile Launcher [90](-4)

Landspeeder: Heavy Flamer, Typhoon Missile Launcher [90](-5)

Predator: Twin-Lascannon, Heavy Bolters [120](-4)

Predator: Twin-Lascannon, Heavy Bolters [120](-5)

Thunderfire Cannon [100](-3)

Vehicles(10)(-23)(!)
Total Comp (12)
Total Points [1750]

Only 12 comp points for what we would all term a well balanced army. They really, really, really don't like mech.

kong

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I always thought PBS did not affect stubborn?

It seems to be ruled so many different ways it is difficult to know what is the correct ruling until a FAQ covers it

That comp system is horrible. 44 pages of hate is how I think it should be best described.

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Last edited by kong (2011-09-24 18:19:46)

kong

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skcuzzlebumm wrote:
Anyway's I realised something whilst on the bus yesterday, whilst I am planning for Gothcon I still have the ToS (Oct) Rolling Thunder (Nov) Caledonia (Jan) and UK40KGT (March) before I get to Gothcon in April.
.

You not going to Bristol in November anymore Neil?

skcuzzlebumm

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kong wrote:
That comp system is horrible. 44 pages of hate is how I think it should be best described.

I really like it. When you look at both the kinds of and spread of armies at tournaments they are both a lot more balanced and there is a hell of a lot more variety than in the UK. There are very few units or builds that can't work there because of how this affects the meta and stops all the more 'extreme' cut and paste tournament builds that we see being so successful in the UK. It's really refreshing especially when I am starting to get a bit jaded with 5th ed.

kong wrote:
skcuzzlebumm wrote:
Anyway's I realised something whilst on the bus yesterday, whilst I am planning for Gothcon I still have the ToS (Oct) Rolling Thunder (Nov) Caledonia (Jan) and UK40KGT (March) before I get to Gothcon in April.
.
You not going to Bristol in November anymore Neil?

No afraid not as it clashes with a Rugby game and being Forwards Captain I really need to prioritise the matches this year.

kong

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I just don't think any comp system works.

How does the comp score effect the games? Can't seem to find how it actually works.

I still enjoy 5th Ed, but I do think that a lot of the events have become stale. I have really enjoyed playing the TOS events recently from singles to doubles. Refreshingly fun games and loads of variety as a lot of the "tournament" players are not interested in going to them

skcuzzlebumm

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How the comp score affects games varies but the basic gist is this:

There is a minimum comp score for a tournament; i.e at a recent tournament it was set at 30. If your army comes in less than that go back to the drawing board.

There is also often a maximum cap on your comp score; was 60 at aforementioned tournament.

In the first round you are paired against someone of equal or as close to comp score.

After each game you divide you comp score by 5 - fractions rounded down.

So for example if Ben has a score of 65 he gets 13. And then if Neil has a score of 35 he gets 7.

You then compare the difference in those 2 scores, so 13 against 7 is 6.

You then half that difference (rounding fractions up), so 6 halved is 3.

The whoever had the highest comp score, so in this case Ben, gets half the difference added to their battle points (up to whatever the maximum score from a round is, i.e 20) whilst the person with the lowest comp score gets hal the difference deducted from their battle points.

So for example if the game between Neil and Ben ended 17-3 to Neil, after taking in the comp adjustments the actual round score for the tournament would be 14-6.

Make sense?

stillfrosty

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Just because I am curious, If Ben would have won this and you would have lost with the same score, we he have gone to 20 and you to 0? In addition, lets say you were massacred, would you lose points IE -3 where Ben would be at 23?

skcuzzlebumm

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Yes if the result was the other way round then it would be thus. Harsh but then don't bring a poor comp scoring army.

No you cannot exceed the max or min points for an individual round.

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New Army WILL be Marines

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