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Nethrag

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Right, well this is what I've come up with. 2400 points isn't enough, character selection isn't the easiest in the world when they've put the price of the slaughtermaster up by 85 points and made him worse (lost loremaster) but hey ho. All the old characters got worse/more expensive to be honest. Hunter is still pap. Firebelly looks interesting though. The designers recognised that ogres needed to be stubborn which is why its the default spell - my 2 main units are just stubborn regardless allowing me to try and buff a bit (more in the second list than the first granted)

2 potential lists. Tyrant and Slaughter master respectively.

LIST 1

Tyrant
Talis of Pres
Other tricksters shard
Deathcheater (Big Name, 20 points - once per game, in combat one model (inc mount etc) must reroll all successful to wound rolls, you get to decide after they've rolled to hit which is nice).
Dragon Helm
HA, GW

You could be T6 and have people reroll wound rolls against you if you wanted instead but then no other tricksters shard.

Bruiser, BSB
HA, Ironfist
Crown of Command,
Enchanted Shield (this may well get FAQ'd but from my reading, an ironfist "works exactly like a shield" but isn't infact a "shield" - therefore I can have the Enchanted Shield too (much like I can get a helm and a shield, this is basically a gauntlet and a shield), I'll use it until it does get FAQ'd).
Warrior bane (magic sword for ethereals)
Dragon bane

Butcher (Gut magic)
Lv 2
GW
Hellheart (the good item in the ogre book 50 points - causes all wizards within d6x5" to suffer a miscast, use at the beginning of the enemy magic phase immediately after rolling for winds of magic. Add a dispel dice to the ogre pool for every wizard you force to roll on the miscast table)

Firebelly (Fire magic) He also gets a S4 breath weapon, his attacks count as flaming and 4+ ward vs fire
Lv 2
GW
Scroll,
Ironcurse
Opal Amulet

The bruiser and butcher go in
6 Ironguts
St Look out gnoblar, Ch
St of Discipline (maybe...general isn;t here so maybe flaming instead)

40 Gnoblars
St, Ch

6 Ogres
Ironfists (Shields)
St

Tyrant and Firebelly go in
6 Maneaters
FC, Look out gnoblar
Brace of pistols
HA
Dragonhide banner (New OK standard, reroll hit, wound and armour rolls of a 1 when charging, plus it has a S3 breath weapon which causes any unit hit by it to have ASL until the end of its next turn....problem being presumably you've had to wait til your initiative to use it as its a breath weapon and therefore the enemy will have already attacked if they were higher initiative than you....my use for it is ass follows...)
Special rules, sniper, stubborn.

So sniper then, 12 24" range S4 armour piercing handgun shots with quick to fire a turn. Hit on 6's at long range is still 2 hits a turn - any of your characters fancy that? Esp your hero wizards! Didn't think so.

The banner plan is as follows. Walk toward enemy shooting. Park infront of enemy, unleash firebelly S4 breath weapon, unleash banner S3 breath weapon. Enemy unit now has ASL and what's left can charge if it wants (with another stand and shoot and the hellheart going off in the magic phase), else I charge in and mop up the remainder next turn.

3 x Single sabretusks. These guys are 21 points, come with 3 WS4 S4 I4 attacks (T4 2W). Downside is Ld4 and can't use inspiring prescence or BSB - that's why units of 1. Shell them at enemy wizards and try and take them down or I imagine will do reasonably well against most warmachine crew, especially in tandem (M8 swiftstride). I'd have more if I could take more than 3 of the same unit. Also increase the number of deployment drops I've got to hopefully allow the rest of it to be opposite what I want.

3 Mournfang Cavalry
St, HA, Ironfists

Want to try them out, d3 impact hits and stomp is good, 2+ armour and 3 wounds is good. 4S5 and 3S4 is good. WS3, T4 not so great. 70 points each prob isn't too far off. Ideally you'd want 4 but I can't really find the points. Will be good for grinding low strength infantry, they'll die quick enough to anything with strength.

Gorger, now with added frenzy (also ambushers rule is always a 3+ roll regardless of turn).

LIST 2

The problem I had with list 1 was I didn't have any of the much improved leadbelchers. Also my magic was pretty low.

Slaughtermaster (bizarely enough the only wizard who isn't able to take a GW, but is allowed an iron fist, which is armour, which means he can take magic armour....I haven't bothered but don't be surprised to see some armour of silvered steel or glittering scales slaughtermasters. Fencers blades, glittering scales and 5+ ward not a bad choice?)
Lv 4
Preservation
Deathcheater
Crown of Command
add h w

Firebelly
Lv 2
Hellheart
Gw

Bruiser
BSB
HA, Ironfist
En, Sh
Dawnstone
Sword of striking
Ironcurse icon

Slaughtermaster in 7 Ironguts
St LoG, Ch
St of Discipline

45 Gnoblars
St, Ch

4 Ogres, add h w
St

Bruiser and Firebelly in the same maneater unit from List 1

3 x 1 Sabretusks

3 Mournfang Cav
St
HA, Ironfist

Gorger

3 Lead Belchers
Mu

The leadbelchers now do d6 24" S4 Armour piercing multiple shots, no penalties for moving or multiple shots (BS3). Slow to fire so no stand and shoot (infinitely better than shoot every other turn and misfire).

----------------------------------

Bit annoyed about the lack of new stuff made it in the list. It would be the maneaters which would have to go to make room (that unit is EXPENSIVE!) but I want to try out the sniper thing first.

Other option with the unit is sniper and poison instead of sniper and stubborn but I think the unit is better overall this way.

Scraplauncher and esp the ironblaster are good but expensive. Thundertusk is my big thing of choice over stonehorn. Doesn't have frenzy, extra rider, stone thrower and numbing chill allowing the other ogre units to strike before the enemy. 250 points is hard to find though.

vodrake

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<sigh> I really need to go and read this book.

Think i'll buy it tomorrow, will let you know what I think then.

Davespaceman

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My books not here yet

Might borrow the banner idea

Nethrag

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I think the banner plan is a good one personally, Will work especially well against T3 infantry. Prob no so great against heavy infantry but we'll see. I'm going to have to figure out if the extra kills you get from using the firebelly's S4 attack in the shooting phase are better than getting the extra combat res for them - my instinct says yes as I'm stubborn anyway and so will my enemy be until I kill most of them.

Grotsmeg

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so whats your general feeling on the army book, is it any good, am i reading too much into it, but the general impression is your not that impressed.

Nethrag

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the problems with ogres are still there. Namely everything else is steadfast and your only T4 I2 light armour with not too many wounds in each unit.

Deathstar still works (as people can't attack the ogres and are forced to attack the characters). The new cav are good. Maneaters are pretty good but ultimately I think they'll still end up being too expensive for how fragile they are.

MSU might still be the way to go to be honest but I want to try the sniper thing for a bit first.

Its a perfectly ok book - as long as GW don't resort to their old ways and go on a power creep as more books come out (i.e. it can compete with O&G and TK fine).

illusionarypresence

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from what your saying Johnny it looks pretty strong.

I realise I'm a little biased but the hellheart is an appalling item. And will bring some easy wins (and boring games).

No one likes 12 Str4 sniper shots. Your going to be able to really mash peoples heroes, and there is very little they can do about it. And having GW on all your characters I think will make your units pretty tough.

I guess you'll still struggle vs things like witch elves and possibly plague monks with banner, but what doesnt.

Your new heavy cavalry sound rock hard. large number of high str attacks and 2+ armour is excellent. on top of that 3 wounds....!

Nethrag

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poison ghouls and Grave guard still mash ogres so dont worry ian.

The sniper thing is good - also costs 500 points for the unit and thats only, 18 T4 5+ armour wounds. I actually think petes right (phone convo) and I'll end up dropping them. It will take out unarmoured/unwarded hero wizards in 1-2 turns. It wont take out Lord level wizards with 4+ wards (does about half a wound a turn to them), esp not your T5 variety. Of course all you have to do to stop the tactic in its tracks is simply screen your character with another unit - then I hit on 8's...not exactly "nothing you can do about it"

Hellheart is very good, but it'll hardly win you the game? It basically stops a magic phase if you get a decent range on the dice roll, which is great but its no more boring winning by stopping your enemy magic phase than it is your enemy magic phase winning by rolling dice. In fact its much less so imo.

Agree I think the mournfang are good. 3 S4 and 4 S5, however you have to remember that its not like most other armies, these are WS3 no reroll attacks so thats really only 1.5 S4 and 2 S5 hits for 70 points - you need the stomps, which means you need to survive so they can't take on anything with high strength - certainly wouldn't put them anywhere near your GG or my bestigor for example.

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Last edited by Nethrag (2011-09-04 21:50:35)

mike

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i was surprised at no units of 10 gnoblars - think we will see a few of them around for diverting

jimbo

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are trapers still in the book? if they are i think they would be a good thing to have in the list

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Last edited by jimbo (2011-09-05 15:47:26)

Nethrag

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All the good stuff is in special so I've tried to make the list as min core as possible. I think the units of 10 are prob good - but imo I needed a unit of 40 to negate steadfast rather than 3 units of 10 as if I need diverters I've got the three sabretusks.

Jimbo - no sadly trappers as tghey were are no more
Trappers is now a unit upgrade for the normal gnoblars which costs 25 points and makes units test for difficult terrain if they charge them. Good if you can find 25 points to spare but...

illusionarypresence

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had forgotton about the new 'hard cover' rules. Npt quite oh few with 8th ed yet....

sabre tusks look great for their mere 21 pts. Think I would go your way with 3 small units, although perhaps 2 in a unit would add some redundancy - i realise its twice as many points to lose when they become redirectors...

still scared of the maneaters, and the dragonhide banner is pure gold...

Nethrag

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The sabretusks can't use either the general Ld or the BSB reroll and are Ld4 so putting another in the unit simply means you lose twice the points when one dies.

Maneaters are still good - but just dont know if they're 500points good, that's around 6 IG and 6 bulls after all.

Frog

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Ive been reading though all the ogres lists, how did you get on with it? Have you changed they way you use these lists?

Also worth noting your BSB cant have Magic items, only big names.

Nethrag

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Heya,
Yeah the list has changed a bit.
Confirmation that the slaughtermaster is allowed magic armour means he's now got the armour of 5+ ward to go along with the fencers blades and a scroll iirc.

BSB is allowed magic items as long as he doesn't take a magic standard, which he doesn't have (nor should do).

4 mournfang with the dragonhide banner are brutal against low strength infantry.

Maneaters funny but not worth the points.

Ironblaster gives you something to be able to take down either enemy artillery or big monsters which otherwise you struggle with.

large gnoblar unit not worth it - is now 2 units of trappers (for 5 diverters/drops).

vodrake

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IMO less characters and more units is better. I have a lvl 2, a bsb and a bruiser general. Minimum core, then spend the rest on killy death. Mornfang are obv great, couple of ironblasters are worth it. Saber tusks ofc.

Nethrag

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what's the Lv2 got?

I have slaughtermaster, firebelly + BSB which I imagine is fairly standard (unless your going greedy fist then its slaughter, butcher, BSB).

vodrake

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scroll and a cheap magic weapon

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