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Jeridian

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Sorry. You have to be registered to access this content.

, because I’m bored and I can!

Acknowledgements to

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and especially the

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from which I ruthlessly stole most of the Squat stats and rules to make my home grown project.

This Codex is completely untested at present, so please point out flaws, mistakes, corrections, ridiculously broken units and army lists, silly ideas, etc.

Tiny-Tim

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Interesting. Overlord Airship, should this be a skimmer as well? I also think that this might be under costed.

Stompzilla

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Now that is a damned good place from which to start!

Well done, Si. You've done in one fell swoop what Tac-coms has failed to do in over 6 months.

Added 05.11.2012 12:36:37:
Not tempted to add in a stubborn rule?

hello_dave

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Nicely done Si - certainly a good starting point as others have already said I especially like the lack of special rules the only 2 you have used are borrowed from elsewhere - but I think a Stubborn rule of some sort wouldn't hurt.

Yeah, the Overlord seems to be the worst unit to make fit in the list are you not tempted to use the Support Craft rules for it? - go on treat yourself to another special rule.
I also thought the idea of representing the bombs with ignore cover FF instead of the short range barrage - but it's your list!

Jeridian

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Tim- Yeah, it should, oops. Good catch- updated in file for next version. It is only 5+ RA and not Fearless, having played many 5+ RA War Engines in my Tyranid armies I know how fragile they can be. But if it proves to powerful- I can up the pts.

Mark- I toyed with all sorts of Stubborn type rules for the Squats, they ranged from overpowered, to too restrictive to gimmicky. The difference between a Squat soldier and a Guard soldier at the scale of Epic Armageddon is negligble, they're a little tougher- that's all. The main difference is the range of vehicles available to them. I think a Stubborn rule seems to be added just for the sake of adding a race specific rule. Hopefully the army will play different to IG because of the vehicles available.

Darren- With Stubborn- gonna start bare bones and add special rules if necessary.
Support Craft I see as another unnecessary special rule in most circumstances- the existing Skimmer rules suffice to show slow moving airborne. Zeppelins can travel quite low to the ground, whilst terrain, distances and scales are all abstracted in Epic- so I can accept sneaky Overlords. I think they fill the niche of mobile AA in the Squat list. Interesting idea with the FF, if the Overlord proves to powerful with all those guns I'll consider dropping them to that!

Stompzilla

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I definately approve of the design concept there and tbh have never been too much of a fan of the support craft rule. I agree with your assessment of Stubborn too to be perfectly frank.

Evil and Chaos

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Well, your Warriors have half the ranged firepower of their SM2 versions.
Your Thunderers have about two thirds (two heavy weapons instead of three).

So you've kept the TC undergunning as compared to what Squats used to be.

Perhaps do what none of the half dozen E:A Squat developers seem to have done, and go back to look at what Squats used to be, before statting up units?

On Support Craft:

For the Tau, it ended up as it is because-

- pure skimmer Mantas (and earlier, Morays) were massively overpowered. They could pop up, shoot at long range, and disappear from retaliation behind cover.

- Thus we got Support Craft V1 (always visible to everything ala the pre-2008 popup rules). This proved to make the Support Craft underpowered, and far worse, completely brainless to play (lessening tactical complexity is a far worse crime than having an overpowered unit) because critically nothing could hide from its massive range TK guns).

- Thus we got Support Craft V2, the current version. This balanced the Manta.

You have to ask yourself if having a vehicle that can stand off at 75cm, fire six battlecannons, and then disappear from retaliation behind terrain, is fun, regardless of balance, because skimmer Mantas were bloody awful.

Jeridian

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Pop-up Overlords with 6 Battle Cannons is a very valid point, Ben, that is a bit disgusting.

Hopefully are resident Squat player will try it out- if it is ridiculous, I'll look at increasing the pts cost, or downgrading the Battle Cannon to a 30cm equivalent or both!

On the Warriors and Thunderers they're as I intended. To further the nerd rage, I know squat about Squats...

Evil and Chaos

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Don't worry you're not alone in not researching squats when writing a squat list.

EDIT-

And of course it's *your* list, so you can of course make up whatever stats you feel like if you don't want them to be echoes of what they used to be. I just thought it was worth mentioning that noone seems to have checked their ideas/lists against the last time the squats had official rules, and that perhaps someone who did that might find more discrepancies than "just" finding that the basic infantry are being given half the ranged guns that they used to have - I'm not interested in working actively on squats so I only checked warriors and thunderers.

It's worth noting that the old Squat infantry had the same speed as lots of other basic infantry, which'd mean 15cm today.

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Last edited by Evil and Chaos (2012-05-12 17:30:07)

miket

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I believe you made a grievous mistype and set the squat infantry move at 15cm, rather than the 10cm we all know it should be.

Evil and Chaos

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miket wrote:
I believe you made a grievous mistype and set the squat infantry move at 15cm, rather than the 10cm we all know it should be.

The only list with 10cm movement is changing over to 15cm movement, based on feedback received from FO players.

Jeridian

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I think miket was teasing, hehe. But yeah, 10cm move sucks...

Evil and Chaos

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Yeah, I got the teasing. I figured that he probably didn't know that the TC list was changing based on FO feedback, however.

Curis

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Top banana Si. That's a solid starting point.

In case you've not already -

Sorry. You have to be registered to access this content.

.

To the Playtestmobile!

Warning: date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/include/functions.php on line 621

Warning: date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/include/functions.php on line 622

Warning: date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/include/functions.php on line 623

Warning: date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /data04/aroberts/public_html/components/com_agora/include/functions.php on line 629

Last edited by Curis (2012-05-22 08:12:17)

Jeridian

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Cheers, great resourse- shame it won't let me download it.

Curis

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Having played against these Squats last night I'm a fan of the list. It's a very solid starting point that I can only really pick holes in rather than despair at gaping flaws.

Since it's not an attempt to slavishly recreate the SM2 era Squats the divergent heavy weapons are now a question of balance.

Mephiston

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If you need one I more than likely have it kicking about somewhere. I'm at the CC this weekend if there is anyone that would do the courier bit for you?

Jeridian

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Before, and reinforced by playtesting, I've been considering swopping the Overlords guns to 30cm AP4+/AT4+/AA5+, calling them Defence Cannons or Flak Cannons. This reinforces it's role as the only mobile AA in a Squat army and stops it being lethal at 75cm pop-up attacks!

Also thinking of making Artillery guns (Thudd Gun, Mole Mortar, Rapier) Mounted to give them more downsides! They where pretty good, annihilating a Warhound in one turn!

Needs more than one playtest game and with the various other units I've not tried yet, since Chris had appalling dice luck which skewed the results.

Evil and Chaos

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Curis wrote:
Since it's not an attempt to slavishly recreate the SM2 era Squats the divergent heavy weapons are now a question of balance.

As far as I can tell, *nobody's* attempted anything close to that to date. So far *everybody's* been makin up their own heavy weapons/ play style instead of checking what the units/army used to do. That's cool, if what you want is "space dwarfs" rather than "squats", of course.

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Last edited by Evil and Chaos (2012-05-28 16:24:44)

Jeridian

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Updated of my Codex Squats

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!

Made Artillery units Mounted.
Made Warlord/Grand Warlord Character upgrades.
Reduced Overlords guns and speed.

Evil and Chaos

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Curis wrote:
In case you've not already -
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.

Oooh, tasty!

Started screwing around with some stat conversions, which may prove helpful if Si wants to make his Squats more Squattish.

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Tiny-Tim

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Quick question on this list, why would anyone take any robots or artillery batteries? Everytime I look at this (and I've now got figures to play with now) I keep on stopping and going 'not worth it'. What am I missing with these guys?

Curis

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Robots make good cheap garrisons. Useful with fearless too.

Tiny-Tim

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The fearless I see, but for 250pts I'd rather get another Warrior Brotherhood and have points left over.

Stompzilla

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Could the squats list be used as a sort of mechanicus list? I.e could E-UK put this out there as a mechanicus list that squat players could also use as "Counts as"?

I realise a few things would probably have to change - I rather like then idea of the mechanicus using superheavy transports, as we talked about a while back but Squat warriors fit the ideal for Skitarii wonderfully (Slightly uparmoured and upgunned guardsmen) and the big squat war engines could easily sub for Majoris and Minoris.

Robots work quite well as do Trikes (Tracked servitor outriders) and I'm sure there must be an ad-mech Gyrocopter style analogue that could work. Get rid of the thunderfire cannons as AA and use short range AA on the SH transports (Possibly even the zepplin thing as some sort of AA/C&C vehicle) and suddenly there's a new army out there that fits with current fluff and allows squat players to use their beloved stunties.

Throw in some titans and lose the Imperial Navy and job done. There's even decent proxy models freely available:

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There's loads of stuff here you can use as mechanicus. Certainly be easier to put together than Dark Eldar.

Flame On Forum

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